Michael Jacksons Former Bodyguard Exposes the Truth

➡ Matt Fidesz, Michael Jackson’s bodyguard and friend for the last 10 years of Jackson’s life, shares his experiences in a recent interview. He discusses the renewed interest in Jackson’s life and music, largely due to a new movie about him, despite mainstream media’s reluctance to cover it. Fidesz also talks about his own life, including his struggles with bullying, his passion for martial arts, and his journey to becoming Jackson’s bodyguard. He emphasizes the importance of setting goals and working hard to achieve them, even when faced with obstacles.
➡ A young man in the UK started a martial arts school that initially struggled, but eventually became successful. He then attended a convention in the US, where he learned about the potential of martial arts schools and was mentored by the convention’s owner. This led to him opening multiple successful schools and becoming a millionaire at 18. His success caught the attention of Michael Jackson, who wanted to train with him, leading to a close friendship and the man eventually becoming Jackson’s bodyguard.
➡ The text discusses the speaker’s experiences with Michael Jackson, including interactions with other celebrities and concerns about Michael’s health. The speaker mentions a doctor who was allegedly selling visits to Michael for £10,000, which he tried to report. He also discusses Michael’s relationship with Rabbi Shmuley, which started positively but ended due to disagreements and Michael’s declining health. The speaker expresses regret over not being able to help Michael more.
➡ The speaker discusses their relationship with Michael Jackson and Rabbi Shmuley, expressing disappointment in Shmuley’s actions after Jackson’s death. They question Shmuley’s decision to release private conversations and criticize his inconsistent public statements. The speaker also mentions a controversial event organized by Shmuley and shares their suspicions about the circumstances of Jackson’s death. They end by mentioning a doctor who nearly caused Jackson’s death in 2003 and the lack of evidence surrounding his actual death in 2009.
➡ The text discusses the circumstances surrounding Michael Jackson’s death, including the roles of Dr. Conrad Murray and Arnie Klein. It suggests that Jackson’s death might have been prevented if Klein and Murray had communicated about Jackson’s health issues. The text also dismisses conspiracy theories about Jackson faking his death, emphasizing his law-abiding nature and love for his children. It ends with a discussion about Jackson’s relationships with Jewish friends and plans to visit Israel.
➡ The text discusses a personal encounter with Michael Jackson, highlighting his frail health, fear of performing, and desire to buy a home for his family. It also touches on his ambition to surpass his own success, his confusion about his spiritual beliefs, and the misconception that he converted to Islam.
➡ The speaker praises Rabbi Schmuli’s speaking skills and discusses his support for Michael Jackson, denying rumors of Jackson’s conversion to Judaism. He also talks about the Jackson family dynamics, mentioning that despite media portrayal, Michael and Janet Jackson weren’t as close due to their busy schedules and different record labels. The speaker defends Michael Jackson against accusations of pedophilia, stating he wouldn’t have supported him if he believed the allegations. He also mentions the media’s reluctance to cover stories that contradict their narrative.
➡ The speaker, a martial arts expert, became close friends with a famous individual, Michael, and eventually became his personal bodyguard due to the constant public frenzy. When the speaker started having children, he had to step back from the bodyguard role, but remained a close friend. The speaker was part of a high-profile group that included celebrities and billionaires, which inspired him to think big. Michael, despite his fame, was described as a restless thinker, always planning his next big project.
➡ The text talks about the life of Michael Jackson, highlighting his kindness, creativity, and struggles. Despite facing constant criticism and legal issues, Jackson remained caring and generous, often visiting children’s hospitals and helping the homeless. He maintained a childlike mindset to stay creative in his music. Jackson also showed immense kindness, such as when he supported the author’s mother during her battle with cancer. He had a close friendship with Princess Diana and had hoped to meet Prince William and Harry, but the meeting was cancelled. Jackson also faced challenges with his image and the media, and had disputes with Sony Music over his album, Invincible.
➡ Michael Jackson believed his record label, Sony Music, was not promoting his album ‘Invincible’ properly due to racism and a plot to gain control of his valuable music catalog. He protested against Sony in London and New York, despite threats and fears for his safety. Despite being asset-rich, Jackson was cash-poor and died in debt, with many questioning where his money had gone. Allegations of pedophilia against Jackson are dismissed as attempts to exploit his fame and wealth, with two documentaries, ‘Chase the Truth’ and ‘Square One’, cited as evidence of his innocence.
➡ The text discusses the life of Michael Jackson, focusing on his relationships with his family and the public. It mentions how he was affected by accusations and public scrutiny, leading to isolation and loneliness. Despite this, his family, especially his brothers, tried to reconnect with him and help him. However, people around Michael often interfered, preventing him from reestablishing these relationships.
➡ The text discusses the relationship between Michael Jackson and his father, Joseph Jackson. It suggests that Joseph was tough but protective, and his strictness played a significant role in Michael’s success. The text also explores the theory that Michael might have been autistic, which could explain some of his unique behaviors. Lastly, it discusses a controversial theory that Michael was chemically castrated to preserve his high-pitched voice, but this is not confirmed.
➡ This text discusses the life of Michael Jackson, focusing on his physical changes and personal struggles. It mentions his voice maturation, alleged chemical castration, and his desire to be like Peter Pan due to hormonal issues. The text also talks about his skin condition, vitiligo, his decision to alter his appearance, and his use of wigs. Lastly, it touches on his emotional pain, addiction to painkillers, and his transformation into the “Michael Jackson” persona for the public.
➡ Michael Jackson was known for his unique public image, including wearing tape on his fingers and nose, which he explained was a strategy to keep people interested and generate publicity. Despite rumors, his nose was not falling apart, but he used these speculations to stay relevant and boost his album sales. Behind the scenes, he was a complex individual who felt lonely and misunderstood, despite his immense success. He also faced challenges, such as receiving abusive phone calls from a fellow superstar over a music catalog purchase.
➡ This text discusses the close relationships Michael Jackson had with various individuals, including Donald Trump and Bill Clinton. It also touches on his marriage to Lisa Marie Presley and his reluctance to discuss Elvis Presley. The text reveals that despite his fame and success, Michael valued his friendships and personal relationships above all else.

Foreign. Hello and welcome to Nick V Uncensored. Today we’ve got Matt Fidesz, the bodyguard of Michael Jackson and his friend for the last 10 years of Michael Jackson’s life. And we’re going to dive into Matt Fidesz and, and the. The life of Michael Jackson and how you got into, you know, into Michael Jackson’s world. But Matt, thank you so much me. How are you and what have you been up to? It’s been mayhem. You know, the kind of attention this Michael Jackson movies brought to the world about him. We kind of expected it, but not to this extent.

And I’ve never seen such attention on my old mate Michael since when he passed away. I mean, that’s the only thing I can compare it to. But Main street, mainly social media, mainstream media kind of are shunning it. They, they don’t want to report about it. They, they did a lot of negative reviews initially about the movie and. But social media is just everywhere you look, everywhere you go, and everything I post goes viral. Got all the fans. He’s got a new generation of fans now and yeah, it’s been manic. I think I’ve done about 40 podcasts in the last five days.

It’s been a lot. Very much American Australia based, interestingly enough. Yeah. Wow. Wow. It’s really good that it’s now, you know, kind of the Michael Jackson energy has resurfaced a little bit so that the youngsters today can understand and see for themselves how big Michael Jackson was. And, you know, it’s given them an opportunity to listen to his music. I mean, even me in London, I’m driving around and I see youngsters playing Billie Jean in their cars and Beat it and Thriller. I’m hearing it, you know, so that’s really good. And of course, you mentioned about the mainstream media.

They’re not keen on Michael Jackson, but that’s a whole controversial story that my viewers are aware of. The media is very corrupt. Well, I want to say they’re not keen. They love him because I know a lot of the editors who were back then when he was alive, the editors of newspapers here, where News of the World no longer exists, the sun newspaper and so on, and they say to me, God, we miss that guy. He used to make us so much money. And they, they’re trying to do the same with clickbait, with negative stories, because negative stories is only what they want, is only what’s going to.

And they haven’t got no, nothing negative to write. So they’re stuck. And the world is loving the movie, the loving, the social media took over. I actually saw a tweet, or an X, whatever you call it, from one of Michael’s nephews, Tito’s son, tj. And he tweeted out the other day saying, mainstream media, you can’t control the narrative anymore. It’s over. And it’s true, it is over now. I mean, I, like you just said, I’ve heard that there’s kids moonwalking in school playgrounds now. And just like when I was at school, it’s. It’s come around all again, full circle.

We knew it’s going to happen, but not as big as this. Yeah, it’s set to be the biggest movie of all time. Absolutely. Now we’ve got so much to cover with Michael. But first I want to go into you, Matt Fidesz. Okay. I want to. I want to go back to, first of all, from when you was young. There’s a bit of a story here and how you got into certain circles and then you was, you know, that led you into the life of Michael Jackson. So why don’t. Why don’t we start from maybe school or wherever you like to start with yourself? Yeah, I’ll try and give you the short version, Nick, so.

Because the long version will take about an hour. So my podcast, I’m telling me like four hours, but I think people’s watch time is. Tends to be 50 minutes or so, doesn’t it? 45, 50 minutes. Anyway, so, yeah, I went to school. Nothing special. Didn’t like it. Very skinny, undercover, underconfident child. Come from a very academic family. So my mum was one of 14 children. All of them got university degrees. So it’s always assumed that I would go to university and be a vet or a doctor or something like that. My mum was a lawyer and my dad come from the industrial age, so he worked for the railway and he’s all about get a trade with the electrician or plumber or so forth.

It became quite apparent early on that I wasn’t good at school. I did try my best and it kind of. Bullies were a big problem for me. I mean, there was. I’d be bullied consistently from infant school. I would say, bullying stop now. Now we get it in the form of haters and trolls and stuff like that. I don’t get it in the street when I’m walking around or anything like that, but it’s different now. But that, that kind of triggered. I wouldn’t change it for me, the bullying because the kid sat next to me. In school he was doing martial arts and he said why don’t you come along and take on this bully and learn how to defend yourself.

And I went on to my first class and I was kind of naturally gifted at it I guess I could already do the splits and the high kicks it was taekwondo and the other side of my family, my grandfather was eight times Irish weightlifting champion and got picked for the Rome Olympics for weightlifting and for 1960. So we have got very much an athletic side to our family but none of his children really entered that side of things so he’s looking at for his grandchildren there’s just me and one other Wendy who’s. She went down, she won Miss Australia, bodybuilding and stuff like that.

So he took me under his wing, he really believed in me that this could be a career for mine. My mum and dad just horrified by the whole thing, you know, how are you ever going to make money out of this? And my other granddad, remember him taking me in his shed and really give me a good talking to about Matthew how are you going to make any money at martial arts? Kicking your legs in the air and get a trade, be electrician, a plumber, so forth. That’s all he ever knew, that’s all they ever saw.

I just knew somehow, be it law of attraction or manifestation or whatever it may be that I can make this thing work so I just trained and trained and trained right after school went to all the lessons I could in martial arts and my parents kept on switching me school so I was getting bullies all the time but it didn’t bother me because I got to recognize martial arts teacher had to recognize conflict and avoid it, not get into fights so it didn’t really bother me too much. I Left school at 16, failed all my qualifications I’m not proud of that, I think you should work hard but for me learning how to, to put 50 pence into a red phone box how many ways you can do that? 220 PS and a 10 or 510 PS I knew that wasn’t going to help me in life so I wrote, wrote loads of goals down in my mathematics class about want to be a millionaire by time I was 20, wanted a Ferrari 355 the time I was 19, probably the most well known martial arts instructor in the world do the size bits like John Claude Van Damme who was big back then or some crazy things that big muscles, big pecs and stuff that athletes would write down and I, and I just followed that, I just studied that every single Day and read non fiction books, people like Anthony Robbins.

I was studying Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich dad, Poor dad series. And so I left school with no qualifications other than my black belt on a personal trainer qualification. Got a job in the gym teaching people how to lose weight, guys how to gain muscle. And I really wanted to start my business, but I was only 16, I thought I was too young, so I hanged on a bit and in the end I got forced into a position. I had no choice. The gym went bust because all these big gyms were coming about where the gym I worked.

I was like a protein shake hardcore bodybuilding gym. These gyms will come with swimming pools will come around, you know, spas and saunas and jacuzzis. So the gym went bust and I was forced to relocate to Devon in England, which is on the coast. And I got a job as a lifeguard for two pounds 75 an hour, which was painful. Parents didn’t support me at all. I mean they were really angry with my life decisions at that time. So I went into a bedsit for 30 pound a week. So that’s literally like a room where you convert the bed into a sofa and then back again and a little kitchenette off it and a little bathroom, a little square to live in.

It’s actually not legal to live that way in the UK anymore. And I defaulted on the rent on that, got evicted, got another one defaulted, got another one evicted. And in the end I started off my martial arts school and it didn’t work at first. I think it was the 30th of August or the 29th. I get them confused. Oh, it’s next year. It’s the 30th anniversary of my, my company, my organization. And no one turned up to my classes. I had over 100 books on, but no one turned up. And then I got back home, I was devastated, thinking, you know, my, my mum and dad are gonna, I told you so, you know.

And I wanted to prove everyone wrong. Turn the TV on. It turned out Princess Diana died that morning. So everyone was glued to the tv. They didn’t go out. It was just like such major news. So I rebooked everyone back in for a couple weeks later. Had 100 people paying me £3 a class. My overheads are £15 a night, twice a week. So I was doing okay. I did think I got a bit lucky, but doing okay. And then a friend of mine called from, he went on holiday to America and he come back and he paged me.

We had pages Back then to call me urgently. I called him up, he said, matt, I’ve been to America, you wouldn’t believe what’s going on out there. Like 20 years ahead of us. And, and they got these martial arts schools, they’re millionaires, are driving Ferraris and Lamborghinis and, and I said yeah, but I want standards too. So they got standards as well. They got everything worked out. So I saved up £350 and I took a flight out to San Francisco, a big convention, a three day convention convention just for martial arts. Business owners. Never seen anything like it before.

There’s nothing like in the UK and everyone was kind of impressed with me because in America when you’re ambitious and young, they, they’re like, can we take you out for dinner and we’ll show you how. And if you do rather pat you on the back and they give you encouragement. Yeah. In the uk it’s the oppos it, they like talk you down. They don’t want your tower to be bigger than theirs and if you’re doing well, they’re stab you in the back. So the Americans really embrace with me. And the owner of that convention, he was in his 80s and he said, look, I want to take you under my wing and make you the ultimate case, case study.

And that’s effectively what happened. I mean, long story short, seven months later I had a building, a town called Barnstable, 700 members and another school in a place called Braunton. And I was making a million pound a year profit at 18 years old. I wasn’t even old enough to sign the lease. I was 17 when I first opened that school. They gave me six months free rent. They didn’t believe it. How are you going to make any money out of it? And in the end I literally took over the whole building. And then I, then I bought that Ferrari, which was a nice moment for me walking into that, that garage.

They thought I was a joker with a cap on and a tracksuit and writing out a check back then for a, for a brand new Ferrari, drove off with the Ferrari and. Yeah, and then from the back of that, the mainstream media was big back then. This was like 99, 98, 99, 2000. So a journalist came in and he realized he had two children training at my school. And he said, Matt, you must be making a lot of money. I had five schools by this point. He got his calculator out and he worked out I was making about 1.5 million pounds per year, which I was profit.

And he says a hell of a story. Bully Boy becomes millionaire through martial arts. Do you mind if I cover it? I just thought it was for the local newspaper Nick. So I didn’t really take it that seriously. So he took some pictures of me in the car, took some pictures of me in my martial arts uniform and few poses, interviewed me, went away. Nothing happened for two or three days and then was like an eruption. I was on the front page of every paper all across the states, everywhere, uk, international, Australia. Buddy Boy becomes millionaire and on the back of that older TV shows wanted to interview me then like the morning TV shows, the evening shows, it’s such a good story.

And they were trying to find my bully but they couldn’t find him until I was, I was 34. So it’s a long time. Like we met on national TV together, they couldn’t find him but it was massive news and that’s where my life got crazy because it came to Michael Jackson’s attention about my success. He was already a black belt and his best friend Yuri Geller was watching me on TV and told his staff Yuri get is also a worldwide celebrity. I want to meet this guy. And we organized a meeting. I met him at his 20 million pound mansion when I was 18.

Really motivated me hanging around with people like that. And then yeah, the rest is history. Just turns out that Michael wanted to train to second degree black belt and along with his friend Mark Lester who played Oliver Twist. You know the original Oliver Twist, the first came out in the 60s. They grew up together as child stars. And yeah, one night Mike Yuri called me to come to my house and Michael Jackson was in his living room and, and he introduced himself to me and we, we were best buddies for a year and then I took over his security as personal bodyguard.

And you did that voluntarily, didn’t you? I did it for free yeah, because I already had the money. And I think that’s why the relationship worked really well is because when things are transactional, you’re paying for things. It with money exchange is very formal. So he was always trying to give me money and stuff and I’d be like Michael, I don’t need money, I’m doing really well. And. And he actually come and visited my schools and saw what I built. But in a way I did get paid because he opened up doors for me. But we will be talking now if it weren’t for him that and he also gave me them the intelligence when I said to him I’ve got five schools, I can’t do any more than that.

My next town’s 40 miles away. He would, he said to me, he hit back at me, sure you can. I’m a poor boy from Gary, Indiana with nothing. I’ve got the biggest album in the world. They sell out stadiums with 80, 000 people 10 nights in a row all around the world, different countries. You can find a way to get someone to travel 40 miles to your next town. He said, it’s called a franchising. And I said, well, no one’s ever done that before. And he pointed at me. So that’s why you got to do it, Matt.

You’ve got to be a pioneer and not a follower. So Michael wrote down on napkin all these things I had to do and he kept me accountable and I hated him for it. And literally that year I think we sold like 400 franchises. And then now we’re at 2048 as of today, franchises around the world. And it’s still growing and growing all the time. And yeah, other than that, but my life’s been pretty normal. So take me back a little bit because I hear that, that it was Michael Jackson himself that, that saw you on the newspaper or something like that, you know, bully boy with a Ferrari and you was a black belt.

He, he asked Urugella to, to scout you, right, to call you for you. So Yuri, Yuri saw me on TV and the newspaper articles. He wanted to meet me to make a video for anti bullying where Yuri did like positive mind power, but like the Tony Robbins type stuff. You can achieve everything you want without qualifications. School’s not everything. And I would teach self defense because bullying was problems in schools, but it still is even worse now of Internet bullying. And we were going to release that throughout the schools, but we ended up doing a fitness video where he did positive mind power to get in shape and so forth.

And then he had the conversation with Michael Jackson about me. I still don’t know to this day how that conversation went down, but I think it was something along the lines of, you know, Michael wanted to continue his training, he was lonely, he was bored and you. He knew he could trust me because I was already a multi millionaire by that point and I could take him to second down black belt. We had to do it in hotel suites obviously and we couldn’t go to rock up at one of my schools. We did once in disguise, but it’s not the same.

So we had to pull the tables aside and train in that way. But we just got really well with a lot of things in common and, and we just became, you know real close friends and after a year or so and I’m not, I’m not sure if, if Michael had it in his head because whenever, whenever I would go out with him public it would be complete craziness. You know, look at my Instagram. I posted some videos to the fans over the last week. It was madness everywhere we went. And I’m the six foot four, big guy, martial arts guy who put my arm around my friend being protective of him.

So I think he knew in his head that I’d end up being his personal bodyguard. But I offered in the end. These people ripping him off Nick, it was just getting ridiculous. He lost his long term security and he’s paying about 150,000, $200,000 a month and this was back in early 2000s, that was a lot of money and he couldn’t trust these people, he couldn’t answer his ph next to them or nothing. So I, I just said to her, said Mike, I’ll take over your, I’ll be your personal bodyguard and wherever you’re in Europe or if you need me in the States, I’ll come.

I don’t matter. My business runs itself now and, and also not just be me but my family as well, my brother in law all the time. My staff had access to over 150 instructors who could step in as bodyguards for him which we used on many occasions. And yeah he was forever grateful. So I did that like with him bodyguard role from 99 2004. Then unfortunately we had the false, the allegations against him. Then the Nation of Islam took over and I became like a friend then for him right to be passed away in 2009. By that point I had three children and Michael was very caring.

He didn’t want you to take the bullet for him if you got kids. So you won’t find many, you know, you won’t find many superstars with a heart like he has. So he didn’t mind me being next to him in the firing line on, on stages or holding his umbrellas, protect his vitiligo skin problem or be able to take the bullet. But when I started having kids then I had to kind of pull back a bit. That’s the way he worked. And he pushed someone else in front who didn’t have kids. So, so yeah we, me and Mark Lester go and see him at Neverland and he will come visit our house, he’ll come and stay in our house and in, in the UK in Cheltenham, we stay at Mark Lester’s house in secret.

And a lot of time. The fans didn’t know he was here. We used to sneak him in and, yeah, that’s how it went. Wow. So you met him in 99? 99, briefly. We. I wouldn’t say we. It was like a friendship thing. It took a while to. To kind of build up his trust. As you can imagine, everyone wanted a piece of him. You know, he’s been through so much. But two, that was. Yuri was like that. That went on. Part of the Yuri Gallery, in a circle. And Britney Spears and Muhammad Al Fayed, who owns Harrods, the Ritz Hotel in Paris, the billionaire.

Once I got accepted into that inner circle, the early 2000s were very much an important part of my life because unbeknownst to me, I was in my early 20s, mixing with billionaires, superstars. I was part of the greatest mastermind networking group in the world. I never realized it because they were talking about how to make the next billion and change the world. And I was exposed to that. So it made me think big. And my. My best friends were Michael Jackson, Yuri Geller and Mark Lester. And I know it sounds ridiculous, but I wanted to beat Michael Jackson.

He was earning 80 to 100 million a year, and I was never going to do it. I mean, I’ll never be anyone as big as that again. But that was my peer group. That’s what I aspired to be. That’s all I had to compare myself against. So, yeah, but I appreciate now I’m 46. I look back, I appreciate it. Back then it was just hanging out with Mike and Yuri. They were just my mates who tend to be a little bit famous, that we had autographs to deal with and a lot of paparazzi. When we went out, I didn’t really appreciate it about them.

Yeah, I wish I could go back now and, you know, it would have been different. Can you tell me this? The time when you started, obviously, you know, you was hanging around with Michael and. And then you said to him, mike, you know, I can’t keep lying to my friends and family where I am, they’re not going to believe me. They’re gonna think I’m. They’re gonna think I’m gone crazy, you know. Can you tell me what was that conversation you had with him, you know, about that? It’s still the same to this day, Nick. You get fans saying, well, I never saw you.

You never knew him. You hold his umbrella for one day because there’s certain pictures where the media like to use over and over again because there’s no Copyright usage, you know, and, and so forth. And I’m thinking, God, yeah, how could you possibly know what goes on behind closed doors? And we’re not going to publicize our private dinners and visits. They only see us when we want to be seen. But yeah, it got to the stage where my family knew. I don’t know whether they believe me or not. I don’t know if they thought I was going to be cuckoo or whatever.

But in the end I said to Michael, I said mike, I need a little help here. I, I can make up stories to my staff where I am each weekend or going to America all the time. And because he had a strict rule that we can’t say where we are, who we’re with or give out numbers, not even to my wife. He was. Because you just don’t know the death threats we got and stuff, you know, it’s very serious. So I said mike, can you help me out? And he was laughing his head off. He said, is it really as bad as that? I said it is.

I, I’ve, you know, no one believes, believes me if I said I was like 23, I think 22 when I first were hanging around with him a lot and he wasn’t doing anything. There’s no public events or anything like that going on. So he said, yeah, yeah, of course, leave it to me. So Yuri, Yuri was telling my mother and stuff, you know, that Matt’s hanging out Michael Jackson and things. And then, and in, in the end the, he made a, he made a big deal that I went out with him to some kind of like event, like a book launch or something.

And I know it was Carnegie is a New York we. He did an event called Heal the Kids at Carnegie hall in Manhattan. It was a charity he, he wanted to launch and he made sure I seen in public with him attending this was. And then also in London make sure I was at the front man where the paparazzi were. And it naturally happened then I was pictured by the side of him. And then all my friends are like, my God, how did this happen? Matt, with no qualifications from a little town in Barnstable in Devon, Macra stature is Michael Jackson’s best mate.

You know, I get it now, but back then you kind of understand why they didn’t believe it. Can you. It’s like wacky crazy to think that you’re, you’re in your early 20s hanging around with the most famous man on earth as you mate and he’s coming to state your house for Christmas and New Year, you know, it’s. And not just him. Mark Lester and Geller and Britney Spears. I’ll go on and on and on. Daryl Hannah, David Blaine. I mean we had a big inner circle group. Yeah. So what would you say Michael’s like as a person? You know, forget, forget him being the superstar now.

Yeah, just him as a human being. What was his energy like? Was he very positive? Was he a bit negative? Was he paranoid? Was he, was he an overthinker? Was he, you know, be, be realistic? Like what was he like his mind ever stopped. Part of the reason why he’s not here anymore because his sleeping problem, his mind was always ticking about the next big album, the next big movie he could make, the next music video. He, he couldn’t rest, he couldn’t relax. It was impossible. Even watching movies with him, he would dissect what the directors got wrong in that movie.

He should have shot it from that angle. Matt. They got it wrong. And I’m like Michael, will you shut up and let us watch this movie? You know, I remember Matrix is when I remember where he just torn it apart. We’re sat on the floor at Yuri Geller’s house watching it and eating a curry and he just wouldn’t stop talking about how they could have done this better and how could they could have done that better. But he, he would be thinking he was extremely paranoid and he had a right to be. People accused him of all sorts, suing him all the time.

Death threats. People used to come in. We used to not allow room service because you don’t know who’s getting in your room. The media would rip him apart. They could never write a nice article about the guy caring to a fault. He was so nice. He cared too much. Times he went to kids hospitals and, and Cardboard City which is the place in London where the homeless live, where we turn up there. And he would insist on walking alone. He wouldn’t give them, he didn’t want to spend it on drugs or alcohol but he would give them pizzas and stuff like that and make a point that he’d give them out himself.

And no security. So we got told to stay back against our wishes. But he knew best. I mean he’d been living as Michael Jackson. So he knows since he’s 5 years old how to what’s risky and what’s not. But yeah, the nicest guy in the world. He’s also a complete genius. I mean he used to read three to five non fiction books per week and he wouldn’t watch normal tv. He wouldn’t watch the news. He would try and keep himself young because he said it make him creative. If he could keep himself childlike because he said, if you look at most people when they do music or art, the first two albums are a hit, then nothing happens because they believe they’re getting older.

So Michael made a point to try and stay. Remember this conversation with him in the back of a car? He said, I try to stay as childlike as I can. And he used Steven Spielberg, the movie director, as an example that he’s childlike, you know. And so Michael made an effort and that’s how he’s able to get hit after hit album. Because when you’re a child, you’re creative. As you get older, you believe you lose that creativity. So that’s a bigger misunderstanding when people think I was a kid and all the rest of it. No, he made an effort to be like that.

He definitely was younger than his age. I mean, he would hang out with me, I was in my 20s. I wouldn’t think he was in his 40s, but, yeah, just a complete genius. A lovely man. I mean, my mum was dying a cancer and he made a point of ringing her every day, wherever he was in the world. Very positive man, Big believer in people. Actually, Tony Robbins, he was very proud of. Michael’s very proud of. Because Tony Robbins mentioned him in his personal power tapes, CDs. And yeah, Michael’s all about positive. You can achieve anything you want in the world.

You’ve got to put your mind to it, dream it, believe it, achieve it. He went even so far as where Mum was getting very ill. He snuck into our house in the Midlands, in Kidderminster, and he sat there having a cup of tea with her for three or four hours. And. Yeah, well, she’s led on a sofa, like literally dying on us. And. And he just didn’t have to do that, you know, he’s a good guy, a very good guy. And she. She believed she was given six months to live and she lived for four years and she believed that was down to Michael Jackson and Yuri.

Get it with their positivity, their, you know, that you can. And he went out of his way to get the best professors for breast cancer, what she died of in the end, and. And open doors. And he didn’t have to do any of that because he’s such a busy man. Yeah, yeah. So I think Michael was very innocent and very pure. I would compare his innocence and pureness to Princess Diana. They were getting very close friends. Yeah, they were on the Phone the hours. My crazy say to me, so much to the point where Prince Charles or King Charles now would get jealous and ask her to get off the phone.

And he said, he told me that was his ideal wife. He adored Diana, he wanted to marry Diana. He was devastated when she passed away. He would always talk about her. Why do you think Prince Charles I. I’m not a fan of him. King Charles. I’m not, I’m not a fan of his energy, his, you know, he seems very cold, you know. And I think Princess Diana has said a lot of things about the royal families. And what did Michael think about the royal family? I never directly talked to him about like the Queen, the late Queen or King Charles was Prince Charles back then, but he had a relationship, friendship with Diana.

So he had met Princess Prince William and Harry and he gave him the dangerous tour jackets and Harry would wear it at times. I was at Cheltenham Race Courses and there’s like a VIP tent and Billie Jean came on and Prince Harry was moonwalking across and he came over to me and he said, listen, is there any way, Matt, you can hook me up with Michael Jackson? I’d love to ask him questions about my mother, Princess Diana and my, my brother William would like to come too so that I knew it wouldn’t be an issue. So back then the communication to get to Michael was, would be facts.

So I fax Michael, I said to Prince Harry, I said, I need something from you. I need, I need something on the headed paper, Royal family head of paper. So I think it was Kensington palace had a paper. I wish I kept it, I wish I really did. But I faxed it through to Michael’s PA and to him at Neverland. And then he was on the phone within minutes. Like, we got to make this happen. And yeah, and lots of promises were made too. Like one of the Lords, Lord Janna, told us that he was going to become Sir Michael Jackson, which is Michael’s dream, like an honorary.

Even though he wasn’t born in the uk, he could be an honorary like Steven Spielberg is. So we organized his trip to come. To come to London to meet Princess, Sorry, Prince William, Prince Harry and to discuss him being knighted. And we went around the House of Parliament. Everything seemed fine. I got room. I got word that the Prime Minister at the time heard that Michael Jackson was there and had exited the building, which concerned me a little bit. I didn’t tell Michael that. He found out later though, because that was the last part of the trip was to meet the Prime Minister who Was who was there at the time Michael’s image was, was tainted.

It’s fair to say the media, if you. There would never be a positive article about him. And the 1993 allegations always stuck with him, no matter. He just couldn’t shake it off. No, no, he would get given a platform and media would not believe him about anything. Even though he’s been proven like with his post mortem now that he had vitiligo. That’s why he’s gone white. He didn’t make himself white. You know he has certain creams to even out but he’d have a lot of choice. So anyway, after a couple of days we got, we found out that we were told Prince William, Prince Harry wanted to meet Michael but King Charles had put a stop to it and no reason why nothing.

Don’t know to this day but we think it was just an image thing. I think that they knew obviously, you know, they, they knew the elites know where they wanna, they’re working together knowing where they want to direct somebody’s reputation if you know, you know, if they want to destroy it because that’s what, that’s what they do. Okay, you’ve got a multi billion dollar half of Sony’s publishing and they want it back and he’s not selling it. Okay, they’re gonna try and make him broke so that he can give up that and sell it. That’s true.

Michael told me that you bang on Michael would, he would. I remember one time he shut himself in the bathroom for half an hour. He was so angry. He said he, he was angry in his, in the hotel room that he’d wasted five years of his life on Invincible the album and that Sony Music he believed refused to promote it because he gave up collateral. So for those people, easier word for that, he gave up his biggest asset because where Michael makes an album, he didn’t just record songs, he wants to do short films. So an album across 100 million plus.

I can’t remember how much he gave up. I believe it was 200 million or something like that against the biggest asset that he had, which they wanted is what he told me by the way. I don’t know Sony Music side of the story. And, and he borrowed against it to make start making his album Invincible. And it came out and he said there’s no lack of, there’s no promotion, nothing’s going on. I mean if you look around the History tour he had big statues going down the River Thames in London and in New York at the Hudson river and Places like that, there’d be adverts marketing everywhere.

We didn’t see nothing for Invincible at all. So he was devastated. And he believed that the head of Sony Music at the time was racist and that they worked out if they don’t promote Invincible, Michael owes them them all this money and that the ATV catalog would land in their lap because he gave that up a security. Collateral. Security, that’s the word I was looking for. And so he, Michael felt he outsmarted them and got out there quick. So we did protests outside Sony Music in London, Tottenham Court Road on a big double decker red bus.

Then he did the same in New York. I didn’t go to with him for that one. He did this against our wishes too. And he called out the head of Sony’s a racist in New York as well. And yeah, he really did believe that they were after his catalog. And some of the death threats we would get would be on that. To that kind of narrative that you give us this, we’ll leave you alone. Not from Sony. It would become from like name people who we never knew. So he was paranoid that someone was trying to kill him to get this catalog.

But he was convinced his record label were not doing what they supposed to do. I know one time he called me and he was so. Can’t understand it. He’s never got asked to go to a record store before and sign albums. And he said, matt, is this normal? Do you think they want me to go to Manhattan and they want me to sit behind the desk and for a day sign copies of Invincible? Is that when he was signing, when he was dressed in like this silk? Yeah. And I said, michael, it’s normal, but not for someone of your status with the big inside and there’s.

And it’s a security nightmare. Someone could come and shoot you. Because I know, I’m terrified, but they’re making me do it, man, but I’m gonna have to do it. And he did it. And he sat behind that table all day. He got back. He had a bad back by that point too. Signing all autographs, terrified about being shot. Yeah, he, he really believed that. He got stitched up, screwed over and he died broke. Died 500 million in debt. Now he’s billions in credit. Wow. Yeah, bad. So what was he in debt to? You know, I asked him once, you gotta remember, right? Because I get asked this a lot.

Matt, why didn’t you do this? Why didn’t you ask that? But I was just like to him I was a millionaire. Which is nothing to Michael because he’s a billionaire and asset billionaire. He was cash poor and I was in my 20s. So for me to go and turn around to the biggest star in the world and say who’s in her 40s? Say Michael what are you doing? Or where’s your money gone? Or stop doing this. I did do it at stages but what I’d find in a pattern would happen. The people who spoke out Michael.

Michael’s people would get them shut out of his life. And I happened to Yuri Geller and Yuri is probably one of the best people for him who would tell him things how it should be. But I asked him once and I asked one of his brothers too where’s all the money gone? The Jackson 5. And. And I asked Michael where’s all the money gone? And Michael said his exact words to me is I don’t know. That’s an accountant’s question. But he refused to say he was broke. He was rich while over the billion mark but in assets but he had loans against it and the interest was getting compounding and compounding and because there was a risk of him losing this catalog a lot of the loans they were trying to call in.

And then his publicity lost Neverland in 20002006 I believe he kept a 10 stake in it but he had. He had no choice to get him out of the situation he was in. He wasn’t too bothered by that because Neverland which is causing him nothing but trouble there and we had this running joke that he was never at Neverland. He’s much more comfortable being in the Beverly Hills Wilshotel in la then taking that long three hour drive out into the mountains that was built for like Make a Wish Foundation. We 20000 kids per year are bused into there to make their dreams come true.

You know. And. And in a movie theater there’ll be hospital beds behind the screens with drips that you can put up for the kids and their doctors can be and they could have experiences they never had. It was never really meant to be a home for Michael. Mike had a home in New York, a townhouse which he used to open the front door to bizarrely. And he was most comfortable in hotel suites because you had that extra layer of security with the hotel as well and room service and who take the entire floor? We take the entire floor.

What do you say to people who are skeptical about Michael Jackson and the allegations and was he a pedophile and or was he not? And before you answer I just want to say my what I say to them is a pedophile would never say on national television that they love children. So. And yeah, what do you have to say about that? Anyone who thinks Michael Jackson is a pedophile is a complete idiot or a complete fool. If they go and watch two movies or documentaries to sit through it, it will put an end to it. First one is called Chase the Truth.

It’s on our Amazon prime all over the world. I’m in that one. And there’s another one called Square One, which goes right back to 1993 allegations. The problem you got, the bigger the star, the bigger the target is what Michael used to say all the time. He didn’t want to settle 1993 allegations. He didn’t have any choice. These are the middle of the dangerous tour and everything had come to a hold. There was hundreds of staff members involved. 2 7, 47 jets involved. Stadiums booked out, billions at stake sponsorships. So Michael had this insurance policy that if something like this should happen or come up, they can override him due to the amount of loss that could be suffered financially.

Not Michael. Michael didn’t care about money, even worried about that. He. He wanted to go and fight it. The problem you had with American law back then is you could have a civil case first to civil as you go after money and then you have a criminal case after. So what Michael said was bring the criminal case against me. Come on, let’s go to court. Because there is so much evidence there. There’s recordings online on YouTube where you can see the boy’s called Jordan Chandler, the dad’s called Evan Chandler, where he gets secretly recorded by Michael Jackson’s investigators saying, if we go through this, we’re gonna get him big time.

And it was the ultimate stitch up. He approached Michael to finance a movie deal. Five movies. Movies. And Michael didn’t want to do it. And then he came out of this ridiculous plot. It’s all out there. It’s all online. It doesn’t. It takes no research. So I think the misconception is that Michael Jackson paid them all. He didn’t. The insurance company overruled him. He wanted to go to court now because of that case. So the kid got paid off by the insurance company rumored to be around 20 million. Which bear in mind for Michael Jackson, that’s pocket change, right? That’s nothing for him.

And Michael was very angry that he. He was waiting then for the criminal case to. For him to be arrested. Nothing was happening. He encouraged it. He got his lawyers to reach out. Johnny Cochran to reach out when he ran the criminal case, it turned out the boy, the dad didn’t want to bring a criminal case, they just wanted the money. And he was outraged by the whole thing. And the law got changed because of that boy and that dad are willing to. To press charges. What happened in 2004? They tried to do the same thing, hire the same people, same district attorney, same kind of allegations, almost script word for word.

But this time because of Michael Jackson, the law had changed. You have to have a criminal case win that. Then you could bring a civil case of money. And of course they lost on all counts. And it came out in the event in the investigation too in court that the FBI were investigating Michael Jackson tapping his phones bug in his rooms for 15 years, nothing on him whatsoever. And. And he got found not guilty of all charges and the hardest call ever. And for a district attorney who tried to get him in 93 and convince that family and.

And a guy called Tom Snedden and. And went after him and didn’t succeed. But Michael was never the same after that Nick. He was never the same guy he was. It was mud sticks, right? And we would go out on a battle with him. It was the first time I would hear people scream pedophile I am and stuff like that. And he would hear it and cry. But no, anyway, from my point of view, listen, I would not stuck around a guy if I thought he was a pedophile. I’ve got six children. I had two stepsons at the time who used to hang out with Michael.

They were like nine and six, no issue whatsoever. We shared hotel suites with him. I knew what he was like. He’s a womanizer. I was talking to his girlfriend the other night and. But unfortunately Michael was raised by Motown. That you should never get married, you should never show if you’re gay or straight with sexuality because you’re going to chop off your fan base. That was the thinking back then. Towards the end of his life, he wanted to make a document documentary to show the real Michael Jackson. And he got screwed over again. And that was Martin Bashir where our was in on that initial meeting.

So no one could tell me that he wasn’t stitched up because he was. In fact they could see he’s not. He was stitched up because there’s a TV show out there called Martin Bashir living with Michael Jackson. The footage you were never meant to see. Martin forgot that Mike had his old cameras running in the background. So it’s very well edited. They did a screw job on me and The Jackson family once too, where they, they edit you in such a way where it’s, it’s, it’s almost like you think, how on earth did it come about? Because it’s not what we filmed.

But yeah, I mean, the guy went through like hell and back. I mean, I. The years I had with him, unfortunately, apart from Madison Square Gardens where he performed on stage with his brothers two nights in a row. They were all. He’s very lonely. I mean, the guy was lonely. No, no one would come by and visit Nick. It was just be. Yeah, it was just no phone calls coming in really as such a. And how about his family? He didn’t, he caught it wasn’t. He wasn’t his family. Didn’t his family make an effort like his brothers? They made an effort.

I mean, I got to know his brothers very well, very close to Tito. Teachers to come and stay at my house for months on the time. Jermaine and his mom, Mrs. Jackson stayed at my house too for I think a month. But yeah, I think the problem you have people. Michael had people around him that would brainwash him, saying, your brothers are trying to get to you because they want you to be Jacksons again, they want you to go on tour again. They only be Jackson 5 because they’re all broke and they’ve got no money. And I witnessed that and I would speak to Jermaine and Jermaine would say to me, can you please get Michael to call me? You know, and, and, and Tito.

Tito is like, it will be when it, you know, when he’s ready, he’s ready. I’m not worried about no tour. Tito is doing his own solo performances at the time. What they really wanted to do is to get him away from all these bloodsuckers and get him under the family unit and get him off the medication, getting away from the doctors. That’s what Jermaine wanted to achieve. That’s what Tito wanted to achieve and Mrs. Jackson wants to achieve. So unfortunately there was like a block list. So if phone calls did come in you of certain people, not just his family members, never his mother.

His mother had full access. She could turn up whatever she wanted to. She, she could always get to him. But unfortunately the certain. But I can’t name him because they’ll sue me because still alive, but a certain person who was around him. A couple of people would make to make out to Michael, they don’t have your best interest at heart. And I was telling Michael they do. Mike, they don’t want to go on Tour. They wanna. They want you back as a brother. But, yeah, they would listen to Michael, would listen to them more than me.

So they. No is the answer. There was no visits. I mean, Jermaine would push hard. He really fought hard for his brother. But, no, there was. There was nothing. There was very few people. I mean, Elizabeth Taylor used to call President Clinton. Yeah, it was surprising for me, you know. You know, Jermaine, he. He’s. He was Jermaine. And I don’t know if it was Tito. I can’t remember. One of the brothers. Yeah, so it was Jermaine and another brother. Well, Nick, let me give you one example about the love for Michael’s brothers to. To Michael, which I did tell Michael about it because he.

To explain it to him. When the first iPhones came out, Michael bought one for Christmas. Each one of his siblings, his brothers and sisters. Tito got his. Through the post. He sent it back with a note saying, hi, little brother, I miss you so much. It’s been years. I don’t want any material from you. I don’t want your money. I just like to have a conversation with my little brother. Love you loads, Tito. And he sent the iPhone back to. To Michael. And his staff had a way of twisting that on him too. And I had to say, no, Tito’s genuine.

He just wants to have a chat with you and speak to you as a brother. Yeah, go on about Jermaine. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah, that’s interesting. That is. Yeah. But so he hadn’t seen his own brother, Michael for years. That’s how, you know, that’s how much Jermaine told me. There was seven years of no contact once due to people around Michael not passing messages on. And I think after the Victory tour, when Michael went his own way, from what I can remember, I remember Jermaine always telling me seven years of no contact with Michael. All of us, it was devastating.

And watching what was going on from the outside, and they obviously knew people that knew their brother too, and heard some of the things that were going on with risk to his life and medication and bad doctors, and they wanted to get in there and help their brother, you know, But Jermaine being the strongest one to stand up to anyone. I remember once, Tito telling me that Steven Seagal, the movie star, the martial arts movie star, was going around talking nonsense about Michael, saying he’s a child molester and all this stuff. And there was a movie premiere and Jermaine went head to head with Steven Seagal, saying, you ever speak to my brother about that again.

And Tilo said I stood behind Jermaine ready to help my brother out in case a fight broke out for him and Stephen and he had his fist clenched. He said I don’t know what I was going to do, Matt, because Steven’s like this martial arts aikido champion master, but I was going to work it out as I went along. But Jermaine really loved his brother, man. He. I know there was a bad bit in the past but he, they all his brothers, they all adored him and yeah wanted him back in the family fold when, when they were doing the Jackson 5, obviously they, they all loved it.

You know, they were very passionate together, working on the music, on the performances with their dad being the manager. And I think Michael grew out of them in a sense that he wanted to go solo, he wanted to do his own thing, but didn’t have the guts to face to them and, and especially his dad. And I think he got one of his people to, to or the labels or something to fire his dad as a manager, you know, so he could go his own way. Was Michael quite soft and not. He didn’t like confrontation, you know, he got people do his dirty work for him.

Yeah, but that’s quite normal. But he didn’t like playing bad cop. So when we go out in public he’d always say to us but make sure Matt, my life needs to be the best biggest mystery on earth. Treat my fans good, make sure I, I’m safe. But I do get to sign autographs and etc. So I always explain there’s two sides to Michael Jackson. You’ve got the Catherine Jackson side, which is a very soft natured, calm, caring, loving, adoring woman. And then you’ve got Joseph who was a fierce businessman who achieved genius. And it’s interesting, I watched the movie.

I guess you watched the movie too with Jafar Jackson. Really good job. Yeah, Jafar used to hang around with me when I Jackson Day in 2007. I, I never believed he was going to play his uncle. But they’re all very, all the Jackson is very talented and yeah, Joe, Joe had. I met Joseph many times and he has got this presence to him which is quite pitbull terrier like fierceness. But he’s just protective of his family. But I don’t believe that that movie was a true portrayal of Joseph. And if Michael Jackson was alive now, Michael would not be happy the way Joe was perceived.

Maybe in the early days of Jackson 5, but certainly not in the last part. I think during, during the bad Era because that was the biopic. Went up to the bad era. Yeah, well, he made. He made up with Michael in 2000. Was in the car on the way to Oxford Union, 2001. He forgave Joe and he understood, being a parent himself then, that everything he did was, was, was right. Maybe he’s a bit tough on him when he was young, but all parents were doing that. And what was interesting, I hung around with his brothers a lot.

They would never speak a bad word about Joseph at all. And what Michael would say to me as well, yeah, he was tough on me, Matt, but if it weren’t for him, there’d be no Michael Jackson. And look what he did. He took us out of Gary, Indiana. And they don’t really cover that enough in the movie. The good he did. Unbelievable. Like rags to riches story, like the American dream, literally. So Michael would never talk about his dad in that sense. And whenever you watch documentaries like mine, Bashir, they were cut off when he goes on to say so, he’ll say, yeah, my dad used to beat me.

He used to whip me and vining chords and stuff like this. But then he would say, but, but look who I am, you know, look what’s happened. Look what I could have been. He used to say, all his friends that went to school and all the brother’s friends that went to school, they’re either dead or on drugs now. And they would have ended up the same way. So they love Joe, but I never heard Tito, Jermaine or any of the others. Jackie as well, our good friends off, speak a bad word about him. They said if it wasn’t for him, we’ll be dead on drugs by now.

Just like our friends were at school. Michael was very sensitive, though. Yeah, he’s different to the others, I will say that. Jermaine, Tito, I don’t. I never met Marlon as far as I can recall. I don’t know Marlon, but Jermaine, Tito, Randy, they are tough guys. They don’t take no mess in. They’ve got that Joseph Jackson presence about them. Whereas Michael is a super sensitive one. And there’s been. I’ve seen some very interesting things. The last few days has made me think a lot about me and Michael and. And how is he different and such a genius? Because he was.

It’s fair to say he is. He is not your average Joe. When you hung around him, he would not. He would be beatboxing all the time, he’d be working all the time. He studying dance, studying the greatest. And even in disguise he would be doing it to the point of annoyance. But what we now know is autism. People and scientists think if you go back in and look at some of Michael Jackson’s behavior, someone like me who’s hung around autistic children now because I’ve got an organization of250,000 kids in it, there could be some truth that Michael is just.

It’s been very proven that autistic kids, adults are super smart, super intelligent and lasered in. And maybe that’s why he’s different. And they label him as crazy, eccentric and wacko Jacko. But maybe he was just autistic, which didn’t exist. But we never that label back then, you know. But so he was different to his brothers. So. So the Jacksons, the conflict comes with the Jacksons would say, the brothers would say if it wasn’t for us there’ll be no Michael Jackson the superstar. But then Michael will say if it wasn’t for me there’d be no Jackson 5.

So that was always up against all the time. Yeah, yeah. I want to talk about his voice because a lot of people, and I disagree with a lot of people on this, this is just my theory and just my opinion that Michael would, would speak in a higher tone. Okay. For whatever reason and they say, oh, you can’t hear his deep voice. In my opinion, from what I’ve researched, his deep came a lot later. He still had the high pitched voice for a man but it slightly matured and it had a deeper tone later. Later if Michael was putting his voice on and he had a deep voice, he wouldn’t be able to reach those high notes in his songs, similar to how his brothers wouldn’t be able to after, after their voice broke in, you know, through puberty.

And my theory is that Michael Jackson was chemically castrated by his father to keep the Jackson voice. Because what happens is when you go through puberty you need testosterone that becomes responsible for the larnix to grow, which creates a deeper voice. And when you chemically castrate anyone who’s going through puberty, that larnix doesn’t enlarge and it stays. It affects the voice permanently and it affects them not growing a beard and it can affect their interests, hormones and stuff like that. Which is. Which still answers that, which answers the question as to why he wanted to play water balloon fights and climb trees and he wanted to play a twister when his brothers were going out on dates, you know, like they said in the movie.

So his interests, his voice and, and the Fact that he, I, he couldn’t have children. Okay. And he, he just. His interests and there was a, there was another thing as well. There were, there was another thing. But he was very childlike in a pure way. You know, that’s it. He wasn’t, I don’t. He wasn really interested or ready for sex when he was young when, when we were, we were like 18 and we wanted to get out there and have fun. Right. Yeah, I, I think he wasn’t ready for that. And, and, and I think that he biologically wasn’t ready for that because he was.

His hormones and testosterone was distracted by that, by the chemical castration. What do you think about that? And did he speak to you about that at all? Yeah, you raise an interesting point there, Nick. So obviously I didn’t know him up to 1988. I was at school then. So that movie era, I was at school. I would have listened to his music in PE lessons. I remember that bad playing him running around the room. I remember that in my assembly at school. But so the Michael I knew early 2000s and so on, funny enough, just two nights ago, Michael usually leave these very long answer phone messages and I’ve still got some of them.

I played one to my wife and very deep voice. He’s like yoma, Yoma, it’s Michael, how you doing? None of this high pitched stuff. So we had to remind him for the high pitched stuff. Now what you’re describing there is what the doctor who killed him effectively got done for man’s manslaughter does go around the world saying that Michael Jackson confessed to him that Joe Jackson it made him chemically castrated. Yeah. And that’s what he says. But now there’s nothing we spoke about. The only thing he would do is get me or others to make sure in public he wouldn’t let his voice drop down so that he would keep it in a high pitched voice for his speeches, etc.

When you look at the rehearsal footage, he didn’t think was ever going to be released, but this is it. You can see him talking in his normal voice there. So yeah, you may have a point. I mean Jackie Jackson’s got a very high pitched voice. He’s never, I never heard him speak deep and I spent hours with Jackie. Tito is very deep but Michael’s voice was unusually high. But now we never talked about it. It never became a thing to Dr. Comrade Murray said that that had happened, but I don’t know. In my era it was, yeah, a normal deep voice.

He had a hell Of a range of his voice anyway. Just singing. Yeah. And he would speak to me like that. And in public, he would, he would raise it up a notch. But even, Even with his deep voice, because I’ve heard his deeper voice, especially the time that you met him, that last, the last 10 years, it was low, but it was, it was still high for a man. Okay. And when you go back to, you know, a 15 year old where they’ve got a broken voice now, they’ve got a deep voice. Fifteen years old, you’ve got a deep voice and you listen to one day in your life, that song that he sang when he was 15.

Okay. I think it’s about 76, I think, or 74. Around. Around that time he. It sounds like. It sounds like the adult Michael Jackson. But the very, very, very beginning. The, the. It was very. It was, it was after puberty. And then you hear. And then if you play that, and then you play Billie Jean and then you play bad, you can hear how his voice matured, but still lacked that, you know? But I think you confirmed it now when you mentioned what he said to his doctor, that he was chemically castrated. And that explains a lot why he, he wants to be Peter Pan and he wants to climb trees and, and, and it’s because they messed up with his hormones.

You know, they, they missed. They messed him up and you know, for money, for profit, for, for, for his voice. And it’s, it’s sad really, because he was a victim. You know, they looked at him as a product. Yeah. I never had that conversation with him or his family about his voice at all. It’s hard to believe, though. Wow. The Joe that I knew would go to that great lengths for them. He must have mellowed out when you saw him. Probably did, yeah. Because, you know, he was in his late 70s. Answer. Yeah, because a man that when they hit 50, their testosterone levels go down and the estrogen levels go up and they start softening.

Yeah. So. So. So. But I can tell you, Nick, is that in years I knew him, he was on testosterone replacement therapy. Trt. He’s anti aging. So you get trt, you get GH growth hormone by a doctor specialized in that. He was very into wanting to live forever. So he was getting injected with testosterone regularly. Yeah. Which. Which is now a known normal thing. I’m on TRT. I’m 46. It’s normal now, just like HRT is for women. But back then, Michael was always head of the game. So he hired an anti aging specialist who would Put him on that.

But, yeah, interesting point. Only Michael and Dr. Dr. Conrad Murray will know, huh? And his dad, possibly, I don’t know. So the other thing is, yes, he had virtiligo. I’ve seen the patches, okay? My cousin’s got a virtiligo. And it’s like. I know, it’s. It’s awful. What interested me was, yes, he did try to even out the skin with creams, possibly bleach, you know, which is absolutely fine. He’s a superstar, so he should look great, right? I’ve got nothing against that, but. And obviously his dad used to call him big nose. Michael confessed that he used to call him, you know, big nose.

He didn’t get that from me. You got it from your mum. He would say to him, that’s right. So that affected him as well and wanting to fix his nose. But then when you look at his hair, he wanted straighter hair. He didn’t want afro hair. He wanted a white person’s nose, you know, he wanted a white person’s lips. You know, I was thinking to myself, did he think that he’s got virtiligo and I don’t like my nose because my dad has traumatized me. So you know what? I think I’m just gonna go for the. What? Just go for the white features, go for the white look and go with the hair as well, and thought, I’m just going to recreate myself.

What do you think? Did you ever speak to him about that? This makeup artist used to confirm that the vitiligo got to the stage where it started appearing on his face and blotches, and they tried to use brown makeup to smear it, but then he was sweat on stage and they were working out and he had to make a decision in the end, so he decided to. To go all the way with it. He didn’t do his legs. He’s quite funny. Once he. He was in a funny mood. He had a bit to drink and he dropped his pants, as the Americans say, trousers, as UK say.

And I said, look, look at me, I’m a spotted cow. And you’d have patches all over his legs. He’s calling himself a spotted cow to me. And one other bodyguard is just messing around his boxer shorts. And. But yeah, the. The. I never knew. So my era, Michael always wore wigs. It took me a while to cotton on because in the morning he would have, like, medium hair. In the afternoon for the meeting, they had long ponytail. And I. It used to confuse the life out of me because it didn’t even cross my mind anytime I realized when I had to check his room that no fans or media got in there.

When we went out on a function and I went into his bedroom and I could see all the wigs lined up and I went, ah, you idiot. Matt, how did you not know that? I had no idea. But a lot of Jackson men were bold by the time they were 30, and I think he probably was too. Plus to scope. Obviously burn injury. I don’t believe he got addicted by. For the painkillers due to that. I think that’s a great way to hang the story on. It was for emotional pain Michael was taking them for, not for physical pain.

He was emotionally in pain all the time for different things. And so that’s a good way to kind of sugarcoat the injury caused his addiction. But no, I know friends who hanged around with at the time, no longer with like David Guest and throughout operations with at the same time. And they. They would look after each other. And the painkiller thing was never an issue. Then it came on a bit more later in his life when he got accused in 1993. He realized that medication back then gave him, like, a bit of a relaxation feeling. And it wasn’t Demerol.

It was a medication called OxyContin that he had a problem with. It wasn’t Demero injections or what they refer to in the movie. So I think that was something that they could hang it on with. And in the movie, they screw scrape over the vitiligo thing. I wish they went a bit deeper into that because it would have helped people understand it more. Yeah. The other thing he didn’t. They didn’t cover, which surprised me is when you talk about his brothers going on dates. But Michael did in that era too. He went out with Tatum o’ Neill and Brooke Shields.

So. But the problem you’ve got, there’s a lot of people who have threatened, I believe, to sue the estate. I don’t know how American law works, but you can keep yourself out of biopics because Janet Jackson’s not featured, VB Jackson’s not featured, Randy Jackson’s not featured, Diana Ross is not featured. So maybe Brook Shield’s not in there. Tatum o’ Neill’s not in there. Emmanuel Lewis, key figures, you know, and maybe they don’t want to be associated. So I don’t know. Do you think. Do you think it could be because maybe they’ve got a limited amount of time to record or.

No, because, like having another two Jacksons around the dinner table. Yeah, everyone’s gonna be looking for Janet. That’s all I’ve ever heard since the movie come out. Where’s Janet? You know, she’s a superstar. Where’s Randy? You know, where’s the oldest one? Ruby? Yeah. Was you ever brave enough to ask Michael, let me see you without your wig? No, Nothing did. What was the bravest thing? Never let you go. Go there. I mean, maybe the makeup artists that he was super close to, but no, even with me, like, him coming out the shower, if he’s opening the doors, passing things through and.

No, I would never see him. I see him without all the makeup and stuff. Is he. Is he. I know he’s very, like, you know, very, you know, I’ve got to look good in front of the press and everyone, you know. Of course it’s Michael Jackson. Was he like that even? Was he like that, you know, as a character, as a personality? Like, what? Was he a bit like a woman? Where? Nope, I’ve got. I haven’t got my makeup now. I don’t want you to see me. Was he kind of like that? Behind closed doors now, you take off all the Michael Jackson clothes, put a pair of jeans on, a T shirt, crack open a bottle of whiskey and be a great laugh.

But then when we had to go out, he said, I need to become Michael Jackson now. And he’d go off for an hour and a half, hair dryers to go on and on and on and on. And then I’ll come out with the lipstick on, the eyeliner on eyelashes, the whole work. The fedora, the face mask, tape on his fingers. So, okay, I’m ready. So he said, I need to become Michael Jackson. That’s what he used to say to us. That wasn’t Mike. That’s not who you. That’s not anywhere near the guy that I knew behind the doors.

Tell us about the tapes. What’s that? About the tapes And. And the plaster? Yeah, all of that. So, yeah, so I asked him about the tape on the fingers the first time around, when I had the guts to ask him, because I just thought. I just can’t understand it, Nick. Why are we putting tape? So we were going out to functions. It wasn’t private, so they wouldn’t ever wear it for private events. So I see him putting tape around his fingers and I say, michael, why? I do think it’s hurt or something. Why are you putting tape around your fingers? He goes, oh, why? Just because you just asked me.

It keeps people interested in me, keeps the mystery going. I said, okay, that’s pretty smart. And one thing that used to bother me a lot, Nick, was the sticky tape on his nose. Because like you, I, I used to read the stories about his nose falling off and being glued together and all this nonsense, you know, So I used to be aware of it. I’ve got to be honest with you, no one will believe me about it, but behind closed doors, his nose looked nothing like he did in public. He made it look worse to get publicity.

So anyway, we had this very important meeting to go to with the head of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, where Michael Jackson was going to do a project with him. He flew in from Switzerland to see us. And I came out of my room, Michael was late. He come out of his room. I gotta be honest, he looked ridiculous. And he had all this sticky tape all over his nose. And he realized that I was staring at and I was aware of his nose and I had a concern and he goes, matt, let me tell you something.

This sticky tape, it’s just allergy tape. You see all those paparazzi out there, it keeps the fuzzle dazzle happy. This will make me billions of dollars of publicity. The next few days they’ll say my nose has fallen off. Sticky tapes holding it together, that money can’t buy, publicity money can’t buy. My albums will shoot up. I’ll become more relevant. I’ll stay relevant. I’m okay, don’t worry, my nose is not falling off. And I thought, okay, that’s pretty smart. And then he was right. The next few days, all I saw was newspaper front page articles with him with the tape over his nose.

Wow, that’s crazy. Amazing. Marketeer is very good at marketing. Absolutely. And that’s probably why he’s thought, let me go the whole way with my skin, let me do my hair like this, my nose like this. Maybe, maybe you wanted to look like a fictional figure, like a Disney figure, you know? Well, I think in a movie they, obviously there’s people who knew him a lot more than me. And the guy who is in charge of that movie is John Branca, who knew Michaels. He’s a guy right from the leaving the Jackson 5. I mean, Branker was close to him and manages his estate now.

And I, and I think they, they give little hints of that along the way in the movie. They hint at all this type of stuff, you know. But yeah, I think, I think if you look at that, if you watch that movie again and you look for what the estate have tried to Put in there to justify or try and explain. Not justify, try and explain. Michael the man. They didn’t call it Michael Jackson because he used, you know when he used to leave out the phone message which is I could play it for you now but because no way I can do it.

He would say Matt Finesse, this is Michael Jackson call him. He wouldn’t say Michael because he’s a brand. He thought of himself as a brand and he would see me as a brand with Matt Fidest. Matt for this. Martial art schools about first dance schools. He wouldn’t, he’d call me Matt for this. He wouldn’t call me Matt. I got some video footage where he calls me Matt where fans are trying to hand him banners and he’d say I’ll give it to Matt, give it to Mac. Very rare occasions I got on stage you’d call me Matt Fideste when he was thanking me.

But yeah, very interesting, complex way of manipulating the media and knowing how to trigger the buttons. And I think it’s partially why he’s so misunderstood too because in the social media age now when he passed away Nick that we just had MySpace, an email, there was no Facebook or nothing. So social media now people don’t understand him. I think they’re starting to work it out with the movie and I’m hoping they’re going to do a part two. I really do. I know it’s controversial because they’re not cover the allegations but there’s legal reasons why they can’t do that that.

But yeah, everything Michael does touches goes to gold. And this will be the biggest movie of all time. You watch. I. I think so Is it, is there a time where like. Can you tell me a time where you felt very, you know, very close with Michael tracks Michael Jackson like a very special moment, like a, like a bonding moment or you know, something where he let you in very close. Yeah. So behind the scenes I had. So I wasn’t like a traditional bodyguard because I shared a room off his hotel suit. I was his friend, I didn’t get paid.

Yeah, bodyguards outside of my brother in law used to be the nighttime security. So when we slept he used to stand outside Michael’s door. In fact he probably spent more time with Michael than all of us because Michael was there for night. But yeah, just chain on the sofa. But I remember one time one of his staff coming to me saying Mr. Jackson’s crying in his living room. Can you go and see him, Matt? I went to see him and all the curtains were shut and you could hear fans shouting, michael, Michael. You know, it was, must be a thousand fans outside.

I sat down with him and I said, mike, what’s up, mate? And he goes, matt, I just want to be successful. I was thinking, blood, I don’t know where to even answer this. I said, well, what makes you think you’re not successful? You’ve got the biggest album of all time, a thousand fans screaming for you. You’re in a twenty thousand dollar a night hotel suite, got the entire floor, the most famous man on earth. You won every award there is to go. The only competition which, which was his problem was himself. And that was quite an emotional moment and how damn lonely that man was to sat there.

And he couldn’t go near the curtains too because a little silhouette would set the fans off and then all the hotel guests would kick off. Like what? Refunds? Because yeah, it’s ruined their sleep. So he couldn’t go anywhere near the windows or nothing. It was just such a, such a terrible time. And, and people would get through to the hotel phone line somehow. I don’t know how they did it because we used to stand the fake names and be abusive to him down the phone. And yeah, there was a certain pop star probably going a bit too close to the line with this one, but I will keep, I won’t name it, but there’s a certain singer from a very famous band in the 60s in which Michael was advised to buy a music catalog, which he did.

Who. Can I say the name? I, I don’t think we both should. All right, he’s very logicians, but, but he’s, he’s spoken about it. Yeah, I don’t think he’s spoken about this part though. There would be. Oh, I see, okay. Because he was who he was. He knew the hotel concierge, the managers, the owners. He could get past the fake name and get to Michael’s bedroom phone and Michael would come out crying about all the names he’d be called by this certain person for what he had bought back then. Okay, yeah. And that happened a lot and that, and Michael was deeply upset about that because he never meant for that to happen.

He just felt he, he gave him a chance to buy it but he couldn’t afford it. But I don’t think the communication got back to that certain person. But yeah, aggressive phone calls from him really to Michael and Michael would come out crying saying, yeah, he’d be able to bypass all the security measures in place because of his own superstardom. Yes. And I think everyone, everyone really knows who this person is. Yeah, yeah. You know, I’m not going to say the name or the name of the band, but now you know why I don’t say the name or anything.

No, I won’t say the name. I won’t. Because you’re, you’re on here with me and it’s. And I won’t say that. But yeah, we know, we know who he is. Yeah, he. He advised him to buy the catalog. And you know what, like you said about mellow out, I think he mellowed out with age too. Yeah. Because I see his daughter now and he actually hanged out with Paris Jackson recently, Michael’s daughter. So, you know, life lessons. I did stupid things sometimes when I was in my 20s. I look back at what I do that for, what I fall out with this person, that person.

And no doubt that superstar we talk about had people in his ear as well, you know. But Michael was very upset about the breakdown, that relationship because he used to stay at that house and it’s one of his biggest regrets ever. So it was it about. Was it about that he wanted a pay rise in his royalties? No. Michael would give all that up for the friendship back again. Right. He told me that. Right, I see, I see. Yeah, he told me that he. Yeah, actually we talked a lot about him because he got married to, To a girl.

It must have been 2002. And it was in the glossy magazine like K magazine or hello magazine. And Michael, who’s crying, looking at it, thinking, well, what did I do? We were such close friends. He got remarried, they divorced. Now we got remarried. That certain individual, that superstar did. So where we want to go, I want to go here. Trump. He was close with Trump at one point. Yeah. Okay. And I think Trump paid him to open Trump Tower for the opening. Okay, okay. And I think, I think there were friends as well. And it became a point where also I don’t know how much Michael trusted Trump because Trump probably wasn’t that big then and Michael was at his peak.

But I don’t know if. If Michael shared any political control stuff with Trump. I think Trump’s clued up as well with. Despite Michael Jackson. I know a lot on this topic, Nick, because Michael was very fond of Donald Trump and had all his books. Donald back then, before president time for people who don’t know, was writing books. The art of the deal got all his books as well. Very good books. So Michael looked up to him as a billionaire investor, businessman. The. Donald was very caring. So before my era, when Michael married Lisa Marie Presley, Alvis Presley’s daughter.

It was a media frenzy. They both of them couldn’t do anything. So Donald Trump free of charge, let him stay in hotel or it’s not hotel, it’s a penthouse suite on the same floor, Donald Trump’s suite. So Donald Trump’s bodyguards could also look after Michael. So literally you come out of Donald’s Trump store, you’d be Michael’s door. And at times Michael would go along to Donald Trump’s. Actually Donald Trump’s daughter Vanka, is it Ivanka? Yeah. She was on Stephen Butler’s podcast recently saying that he used to come out my front door, would bump into Michael and then Mike, he said, did Jonah come to watch my daughter’s school play and I might all go along? And she said, oh no, do we have to bring Michael Jackson with us? You know, because he’s still the show when Michael would turn up for ballet or something like that.

But no, Trump was on the phone offering help in the allegation times he was on the phone a lot offering Michael financial assistance help. When he’d hear Michael suffering financially, he would reach out, Snoop Dogg would reach out. There’d be very few people to do that, offer money. And. And now he was very close. He used to fly around state to state with Michael and they were very close friends. I don’t. I think Michael did that for free. The open at Trump Tower. I can’t imagine Michael maybe. Yeah, yeah. I mean I know Trump. I mean maybe yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trump’s a businessman and he’s a good marketer as well. So I don’t know if there was a. What Michael taught me earlier on about the politics side, he said, Matt, when you’re on tv, podcast media, never talk about your views on politics, race or religion. He stuck by that, although he broke the rules a little bit when he was sing at President Clinton’s events and stuff like that. But I think they were paid for gigs or in aid of a child who died. I think it was actually Ryan White Gone Too Soon, a song that Michael did plot ironically so.

But him and him and Bill Clinton were very close. I remember a Father’s Day once and Michael was reading there was a million pound ransom on pictures of his children if because we used to have the mask up so they have a normal life. So Michael decided not to bring his children to England and he left him in New York with a nanny and it was Father’s Day so he was on speakerphone for about four hours reading them all a story and then President Clinton, and Clinton was president at the time, calls us and says, can I speak to Mr.

Jackson, please? So I thought, it’s the President, he’s going to want to take this call. So I go to Michael’s room. I said, michael, President Clinton would like to speak to you urgently. He goes, oh, Matt, his father’s down. I’m doing a bedtime story to my kids. Princeton, Paris, tell him. I ringing back, I was like, oh, how am I going to do this? You know? Then I went back, said, oh, you know, Mr. President, he’s going to give you a call back. He says, speak of his kids because, oh, it’s Father’s Day. Damn. I didn’t realize that.

No problem at all. And that was fine. He left it at that. But yeah, he, he, he didn’t have any. The only time I knew he talked about politics. This is quite funny. He, they, they did a survey where they went around New York and they showed a picture of Michael Jackson to the public and it showed a picture of the current president, I think it was President Bush, and see who would be recognized the most. And the results came out like, hands down, Michael Jackson. And he heard about, he was so happy with himself that he’s more famous than the president, but, but now he wouldn’t give any.

I’ll tell you one thing I do remember. Yeah. He got invited by just, just at the Monica Lewinsky situation and he got invited to go to the White House. Yeah. I think it’s okay for me to say this. I don’t think Yuri will mind. But he, Yuri Geller was advisor to Michael and he called Yuri Geller and said, yuri, Yuri Geller, do you think I should go? Would it be bad for my image to be seen at the White House while this controversy is going on? And Michael chose not to go to the White House. He didn’t want to be linked to the White House.

So everything with Michael was about branding. Like, I remember being on a long drive with Tito going through the mountains around California, and he would say to me, trouble, my brother Michael is that he lives and breathes Michael Jackson. He cannot stop it for one minute. He loves show business so much. He just cannot be like us, you know, just hang out and be basketball anymore. Those days are gone. He just loves being Michael Jackson. Tito said, one day that will change and he will calm down a bit. But it never did. Yeah, Tito used to tell me that.

Yeah, my brother just loves being Michael Jackson. He just can’t be anything more. Let me ask you this one right he speaks about the great Stevie Wonder and Diana Ross and, you know, the Beatles and all of this. Right. I’ve never. I’ve never, ever, ever. And it’s. Surprised. Well, it doesn’t surprise me because he’s the King of Rock and Roll. Right. But he’s never spoken about Elvis publicly. And I feel like you’re the King of Pop. What? Here’s the King of Rock and Roll. You’ve married his daughter. Right. Why doesn’t he ever say, well, I like Elvis as well.

Is it because he’s trying to protect. Keep the King of Pop kind of, you know, what is. I can answer that. When he signed something. When he married Lisa. Say that again. So when he married Lisa, obviously, that’s. That’s quite a gigantic combination. When you put Presley with Jackson there. There. There was a very intense legal agreement put together for finances and things like that, too, you know. And so, yeah, I never actually. I did hear him talk about Michael Jackson once when we would shout at him about. You mean. Yeah, sorry, about Alvin Presley, because I.

When he was being shouted at, when he took too much medication and literally was passing out, Yuri Getter would say, you. You’re gonna end up like Alvarez Presley. And he was shout back saying, don’t you tell me about Alvis Presley. I was married to his daughter. I know exactly about average Presley. Michael used to shout back. But, yeah, I think that because he married his daughter, he couldn’t. He was restricted, maybe. I don’t know. But even before the marriage, even when he was around the Thriller days or he was in, you know, in. In the bad era, in the.

In the 80s, or, you know, he never spoke about Elvis. I’m also, like, I. I adore both of them. And I’ve always noticed that he would never speak about Elvis. And I don’t know if it was because it was almost too close to home in regards to their status. The King. Yeah. And he wanted to keep that separate so he remains isolated and special because I think that’s his character, Michael’s character, because he’s got Graceland and he got Neverland. Haven’t you as well? Then you’ve got Graceland. Yeah, sorry, that’s not what you said. Yeah, Graceland came first.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You may be right. I never. Yeah, yeah. In context, he. I mean, he’d talk about Prince, he talked about Stevie Wonder and people like that. But, yeah, we never really. Yeah, I remember the Jackson brothers saying that they. They met him backstage in Bray when they were young, in Vegas, I think. And and they met Lisa for the first time and never thought that she would go on to marry their brother. But yeah, she stayed, she stayed very much in contact right to the very end though Nick. She was at least Marie Presley did.

Yeah, yeah. Apparently Elvis took Lisa, Marie Presley, his daughter Jackson 5 and, and, and they, and, and I think the Jacksons there was, there was that time and then there was a time when the Jacksons they were, they were performing on the same night. It, I was it on the same night. I’m not sure if it was or not but the Jacksons came out, they came out of the elevator and Trump comes in and they leave and then he’s, and, and Elvis says to them hey you Jackson boys. And that was it. Yeah, that’s what I heard.

What do you think about that? Yeah, sounds about right. Yeah, you know, stuff I wish I asked him but had I question about stuff like this I would have been shot out of his life before you know it it because it was his ex wife at the time when I knew him. Do you feel that there were questions that you really wanted to ask him and you felt you know what, I better not go there because just think I don’t upset him. You know, I don’t want to get. I wanted to say things to him about certain doctors that are around him at the time, like these people.

Like I witnessed my fans would come and tell me what was going on. Okay. And I wanted to witness it for myself. So there was one doctor who was going into bathroom and selling 10,000 pound visits to be taken up to Michael Jackson suite to have a picture with him. That’s one of his doctors and I wanted to be able to tell Michael that. But then who would he believe? Me, the 20 year old karate guy or his medical doctor who he’s kind of dependent on. So I knew I’d be shut out so I just left it.

So I wish I would have gone back and been tougher with Michael now, you know, or a bit tough on him. Did you not want to say something like Michael and I know I’m only 20 and you know, but I just wanted to put it out there and I, I called up one of Michael went back to America one time and I was in the UK and I called up his head of security in the States and I said I want to speak to Mr. Jackson. This is very formal when we’re in that position. And he said he tried, he tried Michael’s line.

He didn’t answer. He said would you like me to leave a message for Mr. Jackson. I said, yeah, listen, the bodyguard was called Mike. Okay? I could tell you that because there’s no, no issue. Sadly, he passed away too. And I said, mike, I need Michael to know that this doctor is selling visits to him for £10,000 ago and hasn’t got as good interest at heart. And Mike already knew this. Mike was older than me by 25, 30 years. He goes, interesting you say that, Matt. I think maybe it would sound better coming from Mark Lester.

Mark was the same age as Michael, grew up with him. Can you get Mark to call and try and get this through to Mr. Jackson, please? And that was interesting for me because that means all the American bodyguards were thinking, we’re overhearing it too, from the fans. So, yeah, I didn’t know Mark ever made that phone call. But he said to be better placed, I’d probably get shut out. Whereas Mark Lester wouldn’t have done being his best mate. Interesting. Now, now I’ve, we’ve done that. I, I, I want to go to this now. I. Have you heard of Rabbi Schmuley? I know, rubbish, right? 30 years with him.

So this is my opinion, you know, I, I don’t think Rabbi Shmuli has got the great interest of this world. I think he has a Zionist agenda. And, and what I heard was that Michael was very sensitive about what was going on in Palestine and he was crying for the children. And Rabbi Shmuley was trying to tell him, michael, this is just, you know, this is, you know, this you don’t understand. This is, you know, politics and this is this. And, and, and they just didn’t see eye to eye with that and they fell out and Michael made him enemy number one on his list.

What do you think about that? Well, I know about it all because I lived it with Michael Smuly. Yuri get introduced really to, to Michael because Michael got to meet the Dalai Lama and he was upset. He didn’t feel anything. He didn’t think spiritual. He was a bit confused. This is 99. So Yuri Geller’s Jewish. Michael was upset that he didn’t feel anything. Yeah, that is a very important statement that you just made because that shows that he feels a lot when he meets people intuitively. And he made a very clear point about that. Sorry to cut you off there.

No, he felt like it was a pointless meeting. He didn’t get anything from it. And he, and then, and then Yuri said, well, you got this very famous rabbi, Rabbi Shruti Batek, who Yuri was close friends with. They were Writing a book at the time, Confessions of a Rabbi and a Psychic. Would you like to meet him? And this was in there were Manhattan as he swearly lived in New Jersey. Yeah, he did. So. So that was arranged. And I remember I was in the room with Yuri when Shmoody just came out of meeting Michael. It was quite funny because he got pulled over by the police.

I don’t really remember this. And the police. He was speeding on the phone and the police said, who are you on the phone to? And he said, yuri Geller. Okay, whatever. And where have you been? So I’ve had a meeting with Michael Jackson. They thought Smoothie was completely crazy. They were laughing for a while. But Michael took a liking to Shrugie. Now it’s fair to say in the first year, Rabbi Smoothie did a lot of good for Michael. He cleaned out a lot of bad doctors. He got Michael off certain medications. He was tough on him.

And he also set up Heal the Kids to charity, which was meant for parents to spend more time with their kids and stop getting all these censors at schools where people going in shooting in America, you know. So really for the first year, things were good in the second year and I attended all this. I hung around with Shrulia and Michael right to the very end. In the second year, things changed a little bit because Invincible was coming out. So Michael made certain promises that he couldn’t fulfill from the Invincible album. It’s what Michael told me that a certain percentage of the money will go to heal the kids.

And we all know how that ended up with the album and. And so on. And I don’t think he had the power to do that. I think he needed Sony Music, so permission. Now the. The fallout, you have to speak to smoothly about this yourself too, from his point of view, because Michael o’ Neill spoke good about shrinking to me even after they stopped speaking when I was with Michael 2002, 2003, they stopped speaking at the end of 2001. So they did the Oxford Union, which was great for Michael. They did Carnegie Hall. Shruti was. Was the person who married Uri Geller and Michael’s best man, which I attended.

It’s a Jewish ceremony. There is never any Palestine talks when I was around whatsoever. They were planning on doing a book together. And. And so I. From my understanding, the fallout was, was that Shmuli always said to Michael, if you go back on these drugs, medication, then I’m gonna have to step out the way. I can’t do any more for you. And he was very close with a guy called Frank Tyson, his real name is Frank Cassio, who is suing the estate at the moment. The family are claiming child abuse, from what I understand, a quarter of a billion.

And yeah, she really got wind that Michael was going downhill, slurring on the phone, back on medication again and he didn’t want to get involved with that. The last conversation I had with Michael was about Shrulley was in a hotel room in Exeter and I asked about Shmuli and he just said, you know what, Matt, I’m sad that the friendship’s gone, but that man is the greatest public speaker debater I’ve ever seen in my life. No, yeah, Michael said that about Shruli. He just spoke good about him to me. Nick, do you think though Michael Jackson was easily influenced or manipulated because, you know, he’s a very good manipulator.

I think Shmuley is. Is. Michael was quite a good manipulator too though. He get what he wanted. Really. Why? I had no problem with Shirley up until the end of 2001. Then we, me and him ended up on the same. When Michael passed away, we didn’t agree. I didn’t agree with him releasing the audio tapes. I didn’t. To me a rabbi, I don’t know much about the Jewish religion. I might be wrong, but if you’re Christian, you confess to a vicar, surely it stays with the vicar. If you’re a Catholic, you’re a priest, it stays with the priest.

You say anything to them, they can’t even go to the police with it, I believe, unless it’s murder or something like that. So we’re a rabbi. I was under the impression anything said from Michael to Shmuli stays with Shruli. Doesn’t go. There’s no books coming out, there’s no audio tapes being released, there’s no documentaries where anything I see about Michael Jackson, I’m very selective. I backed out. There was a BBC documentary here. They came all the way down to Devon to try and convince me to take part. I knew it was going to be a hatchet job.

I know exactly how these pre recorded ones go just to coincide with the movie, but I noticed Rudy took part in it. He seems to take part in anything. And so, yeah, my views changed on him from being a very caring guy who was good for Mike and had good intentions to when Michael died, all this books coming out and tapes being released and being released to make documentaries and truly talking about him when he only knew him for two years and Then if you cut down the months he spent with him, it’s probably four or five months, you know, if that.

But he did do some good things. Like, okay, Gavin Avizo, he. The allegations he was a big part of Michael winning his case because he stayed at Neverland and he stuck his neck now because really he was there at the same time as the Viso family and they were wrecking that place. But no, I don’t, I don’t particularly. I’m not fond of the guy or what he’s doing. And I do know he kind of flip flops. Yeah. So I swear I saw after Leaving Neverland came out that stupid documentary, 2019 with Raid and James, that I swear I might be wrong, that he did a TV show, maybe 60 Minutes, where he says, I believe Wade and James.

And then I saw a video on his social media the other day where he came out and he watched the, the movie Michael. And he gave Michael glowing reference that he don’t believe the allegations. I was like, oh, hang on a minute, I thought you said you did. He seems to flip flop a little bit depending on the narrative of what he can release at the time. But he’s not my cup of tea. I want to befriend. Well, you say he’s a rabbi and he shouldn’t be releasing videos. And you know, he’s, you know, when you’re a rabbi, you’re, you should, should you.

You would, you know, you would think that you’re, you know, he’s a noble man. Right. But he’s actually got a business where he’s selling sex toys with his daughter. I heard that. And the other thing, I remember you telling me that too, that Carnegie hall was organized by Rabbi Schmuling. That was. And then I remember we arrived, I arrived early. We do something called a recce where we go around and check everything. And at the front, as you go into Carnegie hall, he had a big display of all of his books. And one of them was called Kosher Sex.

I believe that’s it. Kosher sex. And I, and I. I was thinking, if Michael sees all this, he’s not going to be happy. But he never got to see it because right by the front entrance, there’s no way Michael Jackson can go anywhere near there. And he had someone selling his books at this event, which I thought was a bit bizarre. So. So I just. Yeah, he’s kind of a controversial rabbi, isn’t he? And he likes the media. I think he’s a household name in the States. He certainly Is in America, in New York. Yeah. I, I don’t know much about the religion if I’m honest with you.

It’s okay. I, I know what Michael thinks about it and, and you know, he says it in the song they Don’t Care about Us, the Jumi Sue Me. Okay. And, and he’s even got a song. I don’t know if you know this but. But Michael had an unreleased song called Palestine Cry for Palestine. I think that’s the case. Yeah. Again the fans contact me at the moment too that they seem to have this belief that he converted to Muslim and he wrote a song called Islam’s in My Blood. But I honestly think it’s just A.I. yeah.

This, this one, this one was. Wasn’t A.I. because it’s very, very demoish. It’s very, you can hear it, that it’s authentic. But that. Yeah, look, if Michael Jackson. There was a period where I saw that as well with Michael, but maybe he was just discovering he was in discovery mode. We used to call him. He used to have religion of the month. So he’s godfather to Mark Lester’s children and Mark Lester’s godfather to his children. And In Vegas in 2003 they had a ceremony. He couldn’t decide what religion to do it in so he just did a naming ceremony.

In the end it was very confused. Yeah. Now Janet Jackson, when he died, Janet Jackson said Dr. Murray did. Was the full guy. He did not, he did not intend to kill my brother. They killed my brother and they know who they are now. Now when we look at the Rabbi Schmuly situation with trading, you know, being a traitor that Sony wanted the publishing. Tommy Mottola was the devil as Michael Jackson stated. And then you’ve got Jumi Sumi in. In the song do I think in my opinion it was a Mossad operation. The same people that killed Princess Diana and the same people that did 911 in my opinion are the same people that killed Michael Jackson.

Because Michael Jackson was speaking out against a lot of the stuff. What do you think about this and did Michael ever speak to you about high level control stuff like the Jews and spirituality and non humans like what Princess Diana would speak about. Did you ever manage to have any conversations like that where he was trying to maybe guide you or educate you on that? No, because what was strange to me, and it still is to this day, is that all of his best friends, Nick were Jewish. Yuri Geller’s Jewish. Steven Spielberg, David Guest, they’re all Jewish.

So I couldn’t understand. I Could never understand that. And when we had the Jewish ceremony for Yuri’s ready, he wore the skull cap and everything. So no, I don’t understand. Now what I will tell you is that his death didn’t come as surprise us because in 2003 he nearly died in Miami. He’s been documented. It came out in the AEG trial when they tried to sue for wrongful death. And Paris Jackson actually alerted to us that her daddy’s. He’s not breathing, not waking up. And a doctor administered him a fatal dose of a very powerful sedative.

And one of his staff, Michael staff is very clever because in America understand if you’re licensed as a doctor in one state, does that give you a right to go and administer drugs in another state? And we’re in a state where he’s not allowed to give Michael this drug. So we were able to get rid of him. We basically said, look, listen, you either go, we never hear from you again or we’re going to tell the authorities, you’ll be arrested, you’ll go to jail, you lose your license. And we never heard from that doctor again. So the way he died doesn’t surprise me but the lack of evidence around it makes me suspicious because whatever he went, we put CCTV cameras up, made sure they’re working, arrived the day before.

We put security mats down. So when he died there’s no CCTV footage whatsoever of entering, coming out of office house in Beverly Hills. Nothing at all. I spoke to Dr. Common Road when he came out of jail because he, the son, he did a book called this is it and he serialized it with a, with a newspaper called the sun newspaper in the uk. And I read in the article and it mentioned me. He said the last week of Michael’s life, Michael was, was screaming out for Mark Lester and Matt Finesse to come to the house.

And I was interested by this and we shared the same agent in Australia who represents me for my martial arts business, my profile, not the Michael Jackson side I think in Australia. And he represented Conrad Murray for the book release. And he said Dr. Koramari really wants to talk to you, Matt. And I read this article, I thought okay, I’ll hear him out. We had a three way call recorded for 90 minutes and Murray, Dr. Murray was just saying, trying to plead his innocence in the whole thing, saying that Michael was a fit for it, he needed a hip replacement, he had arthritis in his ankles and, and he believed that someone came into the room and he didn’t do it.

You got to believe me. Matt. That they didn’t do the fingerprint testing properly. It was all wrong. He didn’t know where he was. The telephone lines weren’t working. He couldn’t dial out. To be honest, Nick was quite angry with him because he could still kill my friend. Yeah, he was the full guy. There’s a doctor who should be in jail right now. The other guy we could talk about. Arnie Klein is who Janet was probably referring to. So he was seeing Arnie Klein in the daytime, getting jacked up on Demerol and then not telling Dr. Conrad where he’s been all day.

Conrad. Dr. Conrad thought he’d been at rehearsals. Had they both convert Dr. Klein, Arnie Klein communicate with Dr. Conrad. Michael would still be alive today because Dr. Conrad was treating him for insomnia when he should have been treating him for drug withdrawal. Because Dr. Klein had to stop giving him it. And that stopped Michael sleeping and shaking. And I thought the comments, they’d be like the thriller walking around the house. He was having side effects. That he would. Dr. Corridor took him to rehab and sort him out ready for London. Because there’s no way Dr. Klein would have got away giving him Demerol in London.

He couldn’t travel. We couldn’t. That couldn’t have been done. It’s not. It won’t work like that in London. It’s too regulated. So we’re never gonna know. Nick. None of us know. It’s still a mystery to this day. Yeah, it really is. And it’s sad. There’s no evidence. You know, let me tell you this. Let me tell you this. Now, obviously no one knows. And before I ask you the next question, his body. Okay, Michael Jackson’s body to this day, where is it? Forest Lawn. Is it entombed in concrete? And could I or you or anyone, could they go and visit it with the permission of the estate? Yes.

Okay. I see people do go there. Their security buyer, all the time. Because when there’s funerals or people visiting their relatives, you can walk up the hall and you can get a glimpse of it. But then the security push you back because everyone’s trying it on. Wanted to find the most famous tomb in Forest Lawn. Yeah, it’s ironic really, because I remember Michael saying he never wanted to be buried. He never wanted to die. And he’s stuck in a tomb. And yeah, like Tito’s in. Buried in the ground in the same place. So Joe Jackson. So is that their great grandmother? I believe too, but that’s what it is.

Have the Jacksons or anyone that you personally know, that you trust. Have any. Has anyone seen Michael’s body after death? Yes, more so than that. Like trying. I’m trying not to breach confidentiality too much, but nobody wanted to, what should I say? Take his body, lift his body from the morgue to the coffin. So there are three individuals out there who are still alive, who are very close, very genuine, more so than I’ll ever be. I’ve known him for 30 years who were left with a task of lifting his body into the. Into the casket and work on him for hours on end and dress him up the way they want.

He would want to be dressed up. Yeah. So the idea that this video going around about the ambulance and I’ve seen him alive and he’s any, you know, you’ve seen it. Yeah, yeah. That he came out of the ambulance and to fake his death. Right. Obviously that, you know, 100 sure. That’s not true. Michael wouldn’t step on a fly, Nick, let alone break the law. I mean, he wouldn’t do that to his kids. You know, flipping devastated. They still are not. Paris tried to commit suicide. This is categorically not true. Right. It’s probably the most common question I get asked, to be fair in this conspiracy theory world that we live in.

But unfortunately, he’s gone. And he was dead at the house on arrival and yeah, he’s gone. Sadly. I mean, it’s no, it’s no really big surprise being, you know, the superstar that he was and having all those attacks and, you know, and. And all of the controversy around won’t be surprising for. For somebody to fake their deaths and. And yeah, I don’t know if it. I’m sure it’s been done before and we don’t know about it with other people. You know, it’s such a criminal offense though. But this guy Michael, the man would not even speed when he drove his car.

You know, that’s much. He obeyed the law, the way he was raised. The only. The only thing he didn’t like, he didn’t even like doing. I think the film got this across. Do you remember where they. They say you. You’re right, aren’t you, Michael? You’re not 10. You’re 8. No, I’m 10 now. You’re right. They taught him it’s okay to lie. He hated that. Yeah, he used to, because in showbiz. So that’s when he. He thought it was okay to deny the plastic surgeries or deny whatever he did to his skin. Who knows? Because he was raised to think it’s okay to lie for the showbiz world, but that guy would not break the law.

He would not, not fake his death. I mean, I don’t know what the penalty is for that, but that’s surely in jail for the rest of your life after what he’s gone through in 2004 where he was facing jail for the rest of his life. They were so certain they got him. They sent him and managed to get pictures of him, of the jail cell he was going to go in. They’re all ready for him. That’s how certain they. They thought they had him. It would have been horrible for him. Yeah, devastating. With all that high maintenance of his appearance in jail.

That would. It would have. It would have been horrible for him. Him. And imagine the. He wouldn’t survive. He would have died of him months. But you imagine when I knew people who said goodbye to. When he was at Neverland, when they said the verdict was in. Imagine him hugging Prince, Paris and Blanket, not knowing if he’s ever going to see them again. You know, I’ve got friends who were there and Horrendous. Absolutely horrendous. SOBBING he would never break the law. He would never do that to his children. The only time I saw Michael happy when he’s hanging out with Prince in Paris, if I’m honest, all on stage.

I didn’t see much of that. But, yeah, that’s the only time I’d seem really happy. Did you hear the last conversation he had with someone when he said, all I care about is my children. They want to kill me. Yeah. And. And then. Sorry, with his manager. D to vis now. Yeah. And he was saying. And then she. Or he was saying, who you wants to kill you? And. And he said something like, great. Much greater than the government or something like that. He’s all about. He’s not about Sony. He’s not about Sony music. That’s what.

Than the government. I think that’s more like Israel because they control the governments through the eps. The Epstein was a. The Epstein was an asset for Israel, collecting blackmail to control all the politicians. Then it came out that Michael created Neverland to siphon away potential victims that were going to go to the Epstein Island. Yeah. I don’t know. Okay. Yeah. It just confuses me because all his friends are Jewish, literally a lot of them. So I. I just don’t understand it. There are good Jews, obviously it’s not about Jewish. There are Jews that speak against Zionism as well.

They’re like, we’re not happy with what. What Israel’s doing to Palestine. We. We care about the Palestinians. There are Jewish people speaking out against Netanyahu. So some of the Jewish friends that he had might have been good people. Yeah, I don’t know. I won’t live in 24 7. See. So who knows what his beliefs were. I never got that impression. He. I knew he was planning. He met with Rabbi Schmidt in New York with. I can’t remember his name now because I should do because they flew on the same plane he was. Anyway, he was the Prime Minister of Israel at the time and they were planning a trip to Israel.

It never happened, but they were planning a trip to Israel. But what. He did a concert in Israel as well which was hugely successful, I think for the. For the History tour. Dangerous Tour. Yeah. I don’t know. To me it was always pro Jew friends were Jewish come to Jewish ceremonies even so much as going to Rabbi Schmulies circumcision of one of his children, which I attended. Michael didn’t come and he slept in. But he was supposed to be there in New York, so I don’t know. I never heard him speak bad about any race only and they don’t care about us.

Yeah. But yeah, you know, that’d be interesting. That’s. Yeah. For me. Must have been very scared though. Very careful and maybe. Maybe he had to. But look what. I think whatever Michael did would get exposed very quickly. Yeah. It was the head of Sony Music Jewish by any chance? I can’t remember Tommy Mottola. I’m not sure. It’s very, very interesting. I mean he doesn’t like with Tommy either. Very interesting. And you told you say that he liked fish and chips. Yeah, let’s talk about that. He was very frail and. And from what I’ve seen in your other podcasts costs you.

You are trying to. Trying to get him to eat a bit more. Well, Jermaine wanted me to be like a personal trainer to him to get him fit to go ready on tour and build him back up again. But when I saw him in 2009, in March, March 2009, he went to. I saw him various occasions on that trip at the Lanesboro Hotel and I didn’t plan on seeing him again. I went back to my house because my wife just had a baby and anyway, just by sheer luck, I’m glad I went. Mark called me and said, listen, we’re going to watch Oliver.

I don’t want to go, Matt. I’m sick of that movie. Because he. Because he is Oliver. Ironic Michael Jackson Wanted to go to watch Oliver with Oliver Twist. With Oliver. So. So they went. It was complete chaos and he had nothing to do that night. So he said, come and hang out with us. Let’s get fish and chips, get drunk and hang out. So that’s what we did. So I went to Lanesborough and we went to Knightsbridge. He went in. He likes ordering it himself. He ordered the fish and chips. He signs the paper. They wrapped it in back then.

Also grafted for them. They were over. They couldn’t believe it. He loved the little things like that. Got back in the car. We’re in the back entrance to the hotel and. And then we just sat on the floor. We just talked about the tour. He was flying out the next day, if I remember. And he was very frail. Yeah. When I hugged him to say goodbye, that I was like, come on, man, you gotta put some weight on because you can’t do 50 shows like this. He said, promise you I will. Because he was a very bad eater.

He was very terrible at eating. Mark used to sit on him to make him eat. He would leave the table. Marc Leslie to sit on him to make sure he ate his food. But he was terrified about these concerts. Absolutely terrified by being shot on stage, right? And it’s ironic, really, he’s got killed by a shot in the end, but not a gunshot, but by a medical shot, you know. You know, his contest was called this is It. What? What? Ex. What was it? What? What was he trying to do? Like what? It’s funny, I remember when I told.

I called Jury and I said, as I just spoke to Michael, he’s going to tour again, but he’s gonna be a residency. He wants to beat Prince. Prince did 21 nights, so he’s going to do 50. And again, Yuri, get it to 50 shows. Because. Yeah, I said, it’s called this Is It. And Yuri said, yeah, this Is It. If Michael tries to do 50 shows, he’ll never do it. Because he was renowned for taking on too much and cancer. Plus, when you do a Michael Jackson show, you’re not just standing by a microphone. He would lose three or four pounds tonight and have to go on a drip to rebuild himself and hydrate, etc.

And be monitored. But now what he wanted to do, Nick, he wanted to do the 50 shows there, do Paris afterwards and then do Sydney in Australia. And then he wanted to be a movie director behind the scenes. And you know what the saddest thing is his biggest goal, what we talked about at night with the fish and Chips was his dream was to have enough money to be able to buy a proper home for him, Prince, Paris and Blanket so they could stop living at hotel rooms because Neverland was no longer at home. You know, that was not functional by that point.

I were gone by 2009. That was the. Owned 10 of it. That was it. So he. His dream in life at the end of all this work, all that touring, was simply to buy a home so he didn’t have to live at hotel rooms anymore. Can you believe that? And for me, it was fascinating because I own a lot of property. And I used to stare at him thinking, my God, people took advantage of you, you know? You know, when you said earlier that. That Michael wanted to be the best and he was crying and he was saying, you know, I want to be successful.

Right. But obviously it was. Do you think that he was chasing something to fulfill something internally within him that he has not looked within to fix himself, which may have come from a childhood to do with abandonment and rejection? Yeah. He’s always trying to fulfill that gap and it’s not working because he’s. He’s trying to get it from outside, not inside. Yeah. He said to her, used to always say to us, the reason he loved performing so much is that he feels the love from the crowd that he never did as a child. They said it all the time because we said, why are you just still doing.

Why you still want to go push yourself like this for 50 shows? And we didn’t really know his financial issues was his main motivator back then because we didn’t talk about that with him. But I came out later. But yeah, he. Very much so. And also he. His biggest competitor was himself. And we all used to try and get that across to him, as in his friendship, like. Like Michael, you’re trying to beat Thriller. It will never happen. We’re now digital music. You need to move the download. Oh, I don’t want to do that. I will beat Thriller.

You watch. Invincible should have beaten Thriller. It will never happen ever again in albums, you know. You know, he didn’t. He would not accept that his biggest competitor was himself. That was the problem. He had no one else, even on a bar next to him. I don’t know how he thought that Invincible would be Thriller. I mean, I love Invincible. He really did. He really did. Oh, my. I think Think off the Wall and the Thriller album and the Bat and Bad were the top three best albums he’s ever done. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know what would happen if he kept Quincy Jones on, eh? That would be interesting.

Yeah. Now, you know, you know, with his spirituality, did he ever do spirit spiritual ceremonies? No, that’s just media stuff. He would meditate every day and he would encourage, like my mum of cancer, he would teach her how to meditate, make sure she meditated. And he would. Would manifest. He would believe that he would manifest everything in his life. He didn’t believe in talent, he said. Interesting. They think his talent when I’m dancing four hours a day and singing all night. And he made his own talent as far as he was concerned. But no, he. He wasn’t like a spiritualist.

Like he didn’t think he could talk to. To ghosts or anything like that. It was kind of confused in that department. Obviously there’s pressure from the family, from the Jehovah Witness past and he would still respect his mother’s beliefs and stuff, but he was very confused because everyone who like Jermaine converted to Muslim and I don’t know, the fans say to me that Jermaine put pressure on him to convert to Muslim, but I never saw that Nick Jermaine have put pressure on him at all. And apparently some fans saw a picture of him on his deathbed when he’s in the corridor.

That last picture where he’s all taped up and there’s some kind of Muslim beads was next to him. But maybe Jermaine left it there because Jermaine went back to see Michael’s body when he passed away. One of the first to do that. So maybe he left it there because he’s a Muslim. I don’t know. I never asked Jermaine that, nor would I, to be disrespectful. But a lot of fans believe he converted. The Muslim fans could really want to believe he converted to Islam and I get a lot of that, especially since the movie come out.

Why ain’t it covering his conversion to Muslim? That never happened. I can assure you that never happened. Interesting. Not because he didn’t like Muslims. He loved everyone. He wanted to be neutral. But he believed in God as like an upper source. But he didn’t. He was so exposed to everyone. I mean, if anyone would have converted him, it would have been Rabbi Schmuli, because that guy is the. One of the most incredible speakers that I’ve seen too. I’ve seen him speak at Oxford Union. I’ve seen him speak at a book launch he did that we attended when Michael came along to help promote it.

He is one hell of a speaker. So if Shrugie couldn’t convert him to Jewish, being Jewish, and no one could convert him. But I don’t ever. I never heard that ever happened. That Schmidt, he tried to do that. Yeah. You should get smoothly on your podcast. That’d be an interesting episode. That would be. That would be an interesting one. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, Matt Fides, it’s been an absolute honor to have you on my show. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed everything here because I. I’m a very big supporter of Michael Jackson and love his music.

I just love his personality as well. I just. He. He’s got good energy, Michael. Very innocent, pure. Yeah, he’s lovely man. Lovely man. Some publicity stuff is publicity stunts that Michael created and he studies with Howard Hughes, hence the face mask and the glasses. He wants his life to be a mystery. Go and watch the movie. It’s a movie at the end of the day, but there’s nothing there. That’s untrue. That’s in the movie that I can see. And that shows you the true softness and the character of Michael. And Jafar does a wonderful job. And all the nonsense of the brothers and the sisters falling out.

They’re just a family like any other family. They’ve all got managers in between them all, you know, if you want to get to one, you’ve got to bring one manager. And Janet’s got her own thing going on. They’re probably gonna do a biopic on Janet Jackson. Maybe she’s not illegally allowed to do it. You don’t know. You know, not. BB’s always duck from the fight, from the being famous. She looks after her mother now, who turned 96 the other day. So who knows? Randy came out. Jackson 5 very. He replaced Jermaine. He manages Janet now. From what I understand, they’re two very distant camps.

I remember once talking to Michael. We were walking across Muhammad Alfia’s grounds in Oxted, outside of London. We’re walking to Dodi affairs grave, actually. And I. I was talking about Janet. He said, matt, why you keep asking me about Janet all the time? And so I thought you two are real close. He goes, yeah, the world, the media, the narrative always that we’re close, but we’re both busy. We’ve got rival record labels. I’ve not heard from her in a couple of years. Yeah, yeah. So there you go. It’s a lot of media nonsense out there. But the guy’s lovely.

He’s not a pedophile. Otherwise I would not associate myself with him. Obviously. Let my children around him defend him. In 2004, like I did. Ready to give statements for him in court. Go to. Go to California. Ready to go. And I wouldn’t do that. Put my whole career at risk for a guy that I knew was innocent. It was into women, and I know that everyone, because if you like it or not, up I snuck certain women into his bedroom and one day I hope they will speak out. Actually, some. I brought books out, but it goes against the narrative.

The media tell me they don’t want to cover it, so you can’t win. But things like this with podcasts, it does help. So there’s so many more questions, but I just feel sorry for you because we can do a part two otherwise. Yeah, yeah, no, it’s great because I know. So it’s a lot and you’ve done a lot, and maybe when the next movie comes out, we can do it again. Yeah. Yeah, I’d love that. Matt, thank you very much. You’ve been fantastic, and we’ll speak again very soon. You take care and God bless. Thank you, sir.

Catch you later. Bye.
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