Why Curiosity Feels Dangerous in Todays World w/ Dr Debra Clary

➡ Universities are often labeled as liberal for promoting free thinking, but their direction can be influenced by grants and funding. There’s a warning about scam gold IRAs and the importance of working with a trusted company. The speaker, Sarah Westall, discusses her passion for exploring change in various fields and the challenges that come with it. She also mentions a book called “The Curiosity Curve” by Deborah Clary, which discusses how creativity is being stifled and how society needs to question and challenge the structures holding us back.
➡ The speaker discusses the importance of curiosity and how it’s often suppressed in our society. They share their experiences in Fortune 50 companies and how they noticed a decline in performance and engagement. They believe this is due to a lack of curiosity, which they argue is essential for innovation and progress. The speaker also mentions how curiosity is often discouraged in educational and professional settings, leading to a lack of innovation and creativity in the workplace.
➡ The text discusses the suppression of curiosity and original thought in various sectors, including search engines, social media, healthcare, and education. It highlights how corporate influence and fear of legal repercussions limit exploration of alternative methods or ideas. The speaker advocates for challenging the status quo and fostering a culture of curiosity, especially in leadership roles. They also discuss the struggle of introducing new ideas in academic settings due to resistance to change.
➡ The text discusses the importance of embracing change and the power of curiosity in personal and organizational growth. It highlights that many people resist change, even when it’s beneficial, and the key to overcoming this resistance is continuous support and demonstration of the benefits. The text also emphasizes the role of leaders in fostering change and the need for alignment within the executive team for successful change initiatives. Lastly, it touches on the current societal challenges, the influence of global companies, and the need for open-mindedness and maturity among thought leaders.
➡ The text discusses the balance between our curiosity to innovate and the ethical questions of whether we should. It suggests that the drive to combine biology and advanced technology, or to manipulate emotions, is part of human evolution. However, it also emphasizes the importance of considering not just if we can do these things, but whether we should.

See, I almost see it differently. I think that the, the universities are trying to be curious and they’re, you know, they’re, they’re being labeled as, you know, woke or liberal. Right. And so you’ve got our government who is trying to put constraints on what is taught and this free thinking. Now, maybe there needs to be a balance, I don’t know, but I think universities strive for that. But there are then things that tie them down in terms of grant and funding that has them go in a different direction. Just a quick break from the program. I need to share with you an urgent manner about scam gold IRAs and the important need to make sure that you’re working with a trusted company in the precious metals space.

I have had hundreds of people come to me now where they have lost 50, 60, 70% of their life savings in these scam gold IRAs. We are having nearly 100% success rate getting their money back. If you have put your life savings into a gold ira, I implore you to look and see if you have been scammed. Don’t trust the company that sold it to you. Make sure you understand what you can get as a buyback value for the gold or silver that you have in your ira. If you have noticed a significant drop in what you invested, you have more than likely been scammed.

We can help you and there’s no shame. Go to sarahwestall.com Miles Franklin, fill out that form and we will help you get your life savings back. Welcome to Business Game Changers. I’m Sarah Westall. I have Deborah Clary coming to the program. She wrote the book the Curiosity Curve and she works with CEOs all over the country. It was put out by Fast Company. It’s a leading business magazine. And I want to talk to her. I’ve been on the edge of change. That’s been. My whole point of this show is talking about the edge of change in science and government and politics, in regular society, in banking and everywhere I can find the history, everywhere I can find the edge.

Where is change happening? Where is change of our understanding happening? Where are we seeing things that represent change? And I just, that’s what I like to do. Because that to me, is where we should be thinking in our mind should go. And in that process, it’s been one hell of a process. I’ve learned about all sorts of things. And I know that being at the edge of change, even talking about the edge of change is dangerous. And right now it’s even worse because the edge of change is the Truth, what’s really going on? What is the truth? Right? And I think that’s the crux of freedom.

I think it’s a crux of Christianity, I think it’s a crux of human development. I think it’s, it’s like where what we need to be doing in order to flourish. And so I think it’s at the intersection of, of everything that I believe in. And so I’m so passionate about it. And that’s what I’ve been focusing my life on. And oh my God, have I been, you know, attacked for it. And it brings you into some dark paths too, that you have to start, you start asking questions that you want to learn the truth. The next thing you know, you, why are these people being blackmailed? And why are, you know, because I talked about blackmail, realize there’s this whole blackmail system and said, oh my gosh, what’s going on? That the powers that be, if it interferes with anybody’s power, they just work like crazy to shut it down.

But you go beyond that. It’s not just the most powerful that do that. It’s our entire culture. People don’t like change. And even if the change is going to benefit them and it’s 100% what they need, and they might even know they need it, they fight it. And it’s part of our culture. And she tells a joke at the beginning of this, of, of an Italian. The joke, you got to listen to the joke because it is so profound and how it shows the way the rest of the world thinks of Americans and what we think of ourselves.

We think we are so creative, we’re so innovative, we’re all these things and people see us differently. And our culture has caused us to not be as creative creative as we think we are. And that has to do with not only our culture, but also the struct structures that we have in place to keep us from being creative and asking questions. And if you are in the media right now, you know exactly what I’m talking about. And if you’re actually asking the real questions and you’re getting to those truth, it’s really, it’s almost dangerous to be in that place.

Well, it’s like that everywhere. If you’re in university and you’re challenging a new paradigm in physics, you’re a quack and they try to shut you down. You cannot question the authority of those who believe they’re at the pinnacle of their career. And you see that everywhere. So how do we get past that? How do we get past these pillars that are shutting us down, almost getting to the Dark Ages. You know, I always say we’re in the Dark Ages even though we’re so advanced. It’s. It’s like we’re reverting. And she’s going to talk about how creativity has been stunted and why.

And that’s what I am seeing. But we’re seeing it in so many different. It’s manifesting in so many different ways. And so I love this conversation. Again, Deborah Clary. It’s called the Curiosity Curve is the name of the book and I will have a link where you can get it below. And I think it’s exactly where we need to go in society is start, start asking these questions, beating down this structure that’s holding us back. And I also ask at the end, what, when do we question as part of Curiosity, also questioning should we be doing these things? So before I get into this, I want to remind you of my weight loss, my ultimate guide to weight loss and muscle preservation.

I’ve been really sharing the the next generation GLP1 called retitrutide. And my lab that I get it from is the best. You pay, you pay a lot less than you do if you go through big pharma and your doctor. But it’s a. It’s more than if you just go through a peptide company but on purpose because they’re the only ones that I found that are at the quality where they get three independent reviews analysis that there’s nothing else in their vial except the peptide, no preservatives, nothing. And so you are getting the cleanest, best product you can possibly get in this environment.

You need that. I mean Pfizer didn’t do that when it came to the COVID shot. The mainstream medicine does not do this level of analysis making sure proving to you that their stuff is clean. And I think that’s important and that’s worth paying an extra $10 for the product. And I hope you agree because in this environment you need that. So I like Retatrutide because it’s the next generation. It works on three different pathways and the others work on just one or two. Cerrata True Tide burns more fat and increases your energy metabolism and the other ones don’t to the same level and it burns even on the same calorie intake.

It’s burning fat in resting state more than the others. It also has been shown to not reduce muscle like the other ones do. It is a remarkable product and everybody that’s on it absolutely loves it. But you need to do it responsibly. You don’t want to lose more weight than you should. You want. I like to also use other peptides to ensure that you’re preserving your and increasing your muscle muscle preservation, it’s part of the whole solution. You also need to cycle off of it. You also have to do the right dose. There’s a lot of different things that you need to do.

I put a peptide guide together to help you understand how to do it. It’s called the ultimate guide to weight Loss and Muscle Preserv reservation. It’s on my sub stack. You, I have a link below where you can get it. And remember, if you are interested in getting this, you use my Coupon code and save 15. But you also must sign up as a VIP because it’s behind a paywall. Not just anybody can can get there. They want you to specifically want to look into this and research this and understand what it is that you’re buying.

So if you’re interested again you can go to my link below at my substack sarah wessel.substack.com you also go to sarah wesall.com shop where you’ll find reded Trutiide and other peptides that are part of this whole weight loss protocol. Everyone that I know is having amazing, amazing success with this. So I know you will too. It’s the best thing I’ve ever seen. Okay, let’s get into my engaging conversation with Deborah Cleary on the curiosity curve. Hi Deborah, welcome to the program. Thank you, Sarah. It’s a pleasure to be here. Well, I saw your information and I said, okay, I need to talk to this person.

She’s speaking my language. As far as we need to have curiosity and we need to question things and you, you know, let’s not shut down inquiry. And so I want, I want to talk to you about that because that’s a double edged sword and I’ve been on the edge of that for, you know, at least 10 years and I’ve seen the good, the bad, the ugly and I still believe in the, the premise of it. But before we get into that, what made you write your book about this? Yes. So in a way of background, I spent over three decades in Fortune 50 companies.

So I lived, you know, the difficulties of navigating complex systems. And my roles were in, you know, sales, operation, marketing and then my last role in leader development. And I began to see a decline in culture or a decline in performance and engagement, if you will. And I didn’t know why I couldn’t put my fingers around it. And so two things happened to me in pretty close proximity. One was I was on a train from Rome to Florence, and I was sitting next to an Italian man, handsome Italian man. And he said to me, are you American? And I said, yes.

He goes, oh, I have the best American joke. And he said, what do you get when you ask an American a question? I said, I don’t know. He starts laughing, and he says, you get an answer. All right, Like, I quite understand it. He thought it was so funny, but it kind of hung with me my whole trip in Italy. You got to explain the joke. Well, is what I came to understand it is that in other parts of the world, when you ask a question, there is a debate, there’s an open conversation, you don’t necessarily get a yes or no or a response where Americans were very exacting and were very much to the point, and that we didn’t leave room for exploration or try to dig into the nature of the question.

And so right after that, I was sitting next to my CEO in a meeting, and he said, hey, do you think curiosity can be learned or is it innate? And I said, I don’t know. And so I did some research. I came back and said, oh, good news. Curiosity can be learned. And those two things set me on this path to say, could this be what’s missing in organizations? You know, the power of curiosity? And so that’s what set me on my path to do my research. Well, has a curiosity been almost trained out of us? Because, you know, they’ve shown so many studies of little kids doing creative works, and when they’re little, they’re so creative, and they’re.

They’re open. They’re just amazing. And then as they get older, the creativity just shuts down. I suppose it’s not quite the same as curiosity. Those are a little two different things. They’re certainly connected. But there was a group of neuroscientists out of London who wanted to study the. The. The brain development of children. And so they did a longitudinal study, and. And they first looked at mothers with toddlers, and they were witnessing mothers that could stay with their children when they were asking all those questions, you know, why is sky blue? Are all cats girls? I mean, they go.

It goes on and on. A matter of fact, they determined that children asked 298 questions a day. Wow. Now you might say as a toddler, they can’t even speak. Well, if they were pointing at something that was deemed a question. And so in this study, they went back 10 years later and they looked at the group of students that the mothers stayed with them and tried to encourage curiosity and mothers that, that didn’t do that. And they found out that the children that had those mothers, they were more intellectually advanced, more socially connected and more emotionally stable.

So, wow, curiosity is good for us. So then you say, well, if. And there with your kid is good with it for us, but go ahead. Yeah. And so then, you know, they determined that, you know, one, curiosity is contagious. So if your mother was encouraging curiosity or your mother was curious, then you had these huge advantages as you went into your, you know, elementary school years, if you will, then they said, well, if curiosity is so great for us, why do we become incurious? Well, there’s a lot of structure in our elementary years. Children are to be seen and not heard.

Stay in your seats. There’s a lot of reasons we need to do that. You don’t need mayhem in a classroom. But the sense of we are taught to be incurious. And so then when we go into the workplace, and now we’ve gone undergrad, maybe grad school, law, lawyer, a doctor, you’re an expert, and guess what, you’re rewarded for that expertise. And, and guess what, we don’t have a whole lot of time to go outside of those parameters. So we taught to be incurious and we stay in curious in the workplace for those reasons. Well, but we also are punished if we go outside those parameters.

Right. So notoriously, if a doctor goes outside the parameters and becomes more of a researcher and tries to figure things out, they get, they get slapped in the hands. If, you know, a business professional goes outside their bounds and they start figuring out things and curiosity, that they rocks the boat in this bureaucratic structure. They get slapped down and notoriously, scientists who get to the edge, and this is what I see, the edge of change. You get to the edge of change and you don’t realize. You go in naively and suddenly you’re talking about scalar waves and I can get into that or you know, some other.

I mean, there’s plenty of them. That’s just one. You all of a sudden you end up walking on the toes of people you didn’t even know you walked on and you get slapped down and you’re suppressed and everything else. There is this something going on where human beings don’t want to know things or something. What, what is going on with that? So it’s a learned behavior. Right. So you have to look at Each organizational culture differently in a sense of. You can work in a culture that rewards asking questions, reward, you know, pushing the status quo.

You know, very innovative companies reward that type of thinking. Other cultures do not. They don’t leave space to ask questions. You’re punished if you challenge the status quo. And that’s why I do this work, because there’s a direct correlation between curiosity, leadership and performance. And organizations need performance. But we think as Americans that we’re so innovative, we’re so creative, we’re so out there thinking. And if it’s a joke that everybody gets that we aren’t like that, then is our perceptive, our view of ourself very disconnected to the reality of who we are? Well, you know, say more about that.

Say more about that. Okay, so if the Italians think it’s, you know, we just have an answer, meaning we don’t explore, we’re not curious, essentially. That’s what they were saying. Yes. And they just all, they all thought the joke was funny. We didn’t even get it right. So the perception that we have of ourselves is very different than the perception that they have of us. And we can’t tell. We think we’re the most innovative, the most curious, you know, country in the world when it might not. We might be the opposite of. I don’t know about the opposite, but we’re pretty.

The fact that it’s a joke elsewhere and we don’t even get it shows that there’s a pretty big disconnect. Absolutely. And again, it’s. It’s all things that can be rewired and undone. And that’s why I do this work, is to. Is to share that there is a different way of being that is going to create a culture of curiosity where people thrive. They feel like they’re a part of something and that they feel like they can make a contribution. Okay, well, then let’s talk about. Okay, there’s a difference. We are, from an economic standpoint, we have a lot of patents, we have a lot of economic activity, but that those developments are always about making money, carving out monopolies, carving out dominance in an industry, you know, it’s not about.

And some of it’s curious, but it’s not the new innovative ideas that we used to be 200 years ago, coming from the bottom up, reshaping our society. We’re not seeing that. I agree. Okay. And you know, I, my sister, we had a conversation about scalar waves. Right. It’s a, it’s a really advanced frequency that is used in it’s incredible. It’ll change. I think it’s quantum, I think it’s the basis behind quantum physics. And I, it’s going to change our understanding how frequency and telecommunications, all these things will, and energy will work. And but if you go on Western browsers and Western outlets, they say that it’s an AIs, it’s a conspiracy theory, there’s absolutely no proof behind it, blah blah, blah, over and over everywhere.

And then I said okay, well go to Yandex, get out of the Western system now. Yandex is Russian so it has its own biases, but go and, and do a search there. It’s like what Google used to be like 25 years ago. So she did a search there and first things that come up, Tesla proved scalar waves was, was, was, I don’t know, real or something. And then it was a slew of all sorts of university studies around the world researching scalar waves. None of that comes up in our Western browsers and AIs. So obviously we don’t want people to be curious about that.

And that’s the kind of stuff I see all the time in the west compared to other areas of the world. So what’s going on there? I absolutely agree. You know, you just think about what’s happening in our country now and really kind of around the world where social media and algorithms and what you’re fed into your social media that begins to shape your thinking and you know, we have beginning to lose touch of originality and own thought leadership. Well and we’re seeing that I’m going to just bash on industry after industry because we need to, we need to say knock it off because it’s a competitive advantage for us and it actually limits our ability to flourish.

Now in like medicine we’ve gotten, corporate medicine has taken over to the point where only standard of care is viable. But there are curious doctors, but they get slapped in the wrist, they’re afraid to go outside the box and there are so many other more effective treatments. And that’s why medical tourism is so big. If you want to deal with cancer, for example, you want to get the hell out of the United States because the results in other countries are so much better because they’re not burdened by the corporate medical system forcing standard of care that’s based on making sure you don’t get sued and making sure they maximize their profits.

Absolutely. I mean it’s a very complex and thorny issues that cross many industries. And again that’s why I do this work is like Making it acceptable to challenge the status quo, Making it acceptable that, you know, curiosity is about discovery and new ways of doing things. I think it’s the essence of everything. It’s the essence. If you’re a Christian, it’s the essence of truth. If you’re an entrepreneur, it’s the essence of being an entrepreneur. It’s the essence of freedom. So, okay, so how do you break down some of those walls and not find yourself being punished in? I mean, I, you know, I would leave because I’m that way.

You know, I’m like, what I do, I’ve carved my whole career. My whole thing is about how do we, you know, challenge and think about different about stuff. So I wouldn’t be able to stand an organization like that. But people can’t realistically just leave. There isn’t enough organizations to go to. And with a culture that we have in this country that forces you to think that, how do you deal with it practically? And how do you make a change inside an organization who is not willing to think like this? Right. So the first thing that I do is I work with the executive team, because so goes the executive team, so goes the culture.

Right? So culture and leadership are synonymous. So I get to the CEOs and the executive team, and I begin with sharing with them, what is the power of curiosity in terms of how can curiosity drive performance? Right. So that’s what the executive team is charged with. Drive performance. And so when they begin to see the science behind curiosity, then they go, okay, tell us how to do it. And then I take them into ways in which they can implement certain frameworks to create a culture of curiosity. When, when executives can see that there is science behind it and that there is a direct relationship to performance, then they’re interested.

Well, how do we get the universities to get back on that track? Because universities should be all about curiosity. But it’s turning out that the universities are actually suppressing it versus having it flourish versus encouraging it. So how do we get the universities where it should be encouraged to change their mindset? See, I almost see it differently. I think that the, the universities are trying to be curious and they’re, you know, they’re, they’re being labeled as, you know, woke or liberal. Right? And so you’ve got our, our government who is trying to put constraints on what is taught and this free thinking.

Now, maybe there needs to be a balance, I don’t know, but I think universities strive for that. But there are then things that tie them down in terms of grant and Funding that has them go in a different direction. Quick break from the program to share with you something amazing. This is called sloop. It’s actually Slupp 332 but it’s been shortened to Sloop. And this thing mimics exercise. It seems too good to be true. I first shared this on my substack and I had Dr. Diane Kaiser and we went through all, all the benefits of this and the whole thing sold out.

You can’t get it anywhere really across the industry and the people who are using it the most are athletes and bodybuilders and people who want to see extra performance in athletics. Because this in preclinical studies with mice increased their endurance by 70% and their distance by 45%. I mean it’s incredible. And it’s been shown to mimic exercise even when you’re at rest. In pre clinical studies with obese mice, they lost upwards of 12% of their body weight in four weeks and it increased muscle. So this is really taking the industry by storm. It’s actually not that expensive either.

With my 10% coupon, it’s about $80 or maybe a two month supply if you take one capsule a day. If you decide to up it to two capsules a day because your dosage depends on what you want, then it’s a one month supply. But Dr. Diane recommends doing one capsule a day until your body gets used to it. You might not see the same level of results right away that the mice did, but your body can get used to it and see if it’s something that you really want to do. If you are interested in this, I will have a link below so you can try it yourself or go to sarah wessel.com under share shop.

Remember to use the code Sarah to save 10%. Okay, interesting. Okay, so you’re coming at it from a different. This is great. I’m glad you’re coming at it from this perspective because I come at it from the other perspective. I, I tend to come at it from the universities, got caught up in some of this woke stuff. And I know because I’m more merit based, I’ve. My whole life I’ve been not given, you know, as a female, you know this, you’re not necessarily given the same respect based on merit. And so you know, especially with sports and everything else and so your whole life you’re just fighting for merit.

And then with the whole woke stuff I thought that it went for, away from merit and into some of these other areas and I’m more in the middle, I think the both sides went too far is what I think. Yes, I agree. But with the universities, I think, you know, because I taught at a university and I, I watched firsthand. But I was also at the very peak of when this was happening. I worked for. Watched firsthand, where you couldn’t say certain words, you couldn’t say. You had. You were very. You had to be very careful how you spoke because if you walked out of any boundaries, you were just labeled and smeared.

It was very difficult. So the universities went to an extreme, too, and. But I think they go to extreme. Like, I have a scientist who worked at NASA and he comes on my show, I’m on a board with them, and Richard Lighthouse, and he has a master’s from Stanford. We talk about how there’s. In physics, you can’t approach physics that are outside the bounds of the paradigm and the way that they think about it, if you do, you are ridiculed and called a quack. And you can’t even experiment with some of these new ideas. So universities at the edge of change are.

They want to. If it’s going to usurp the authority of the professors and challenge what their ideas are making them not the expert anymore, they fight it like hell. And it takes decades and they have to actually leave before these new ideas can come into play. And this is not new. I mean, this is. Think about what Tesla faced. Oh, yeah. And it even goes. I mean, from the beginning of time, it’s this thing about the knowing and the unknown, right? And it’s the. It’s like helping people understand that there’s a new way to do it.

And as humans, we don’t like change. You know, our brains resist any type of change. And so when someone comes up with a new, new way of thinking about it or even like, hey, there’s a possibility our brain shut down and say, no, we. This is what we know, this is what we’re going to do. And again, that’s why you do your work, that’s why I do my work, to say there’s a different way to come at this. And, you know, I can’t change the world, but I can change one person at a time, you know, and what I’m doing is I’m trying to model it and I’m trying to help, you know, the C suite understand the power of the change and the power of the transformation.

Well, and I love the fact that we’re a joke to an obvious joke that we don’t even get. I mean, that was such a great example an obvious joke that we don’t even get to people in other countries because of our mentality. If people let that sink in, then that shows you what that, how uncurious we are. That’s incredible. That that is. That was such a profound thing that you, you shared with me. I did a article, it’s on my sub stack about change. And there’s only, I can’t remember the stats. You might know this. There’s this, a third of the people that will actually be okay with change and will integrate it and welcome it, and even less than that, that really appreciate it.

And then there is like a third that actively, no matter what happens, I think it’s even more than that. Like half, I don’t remember. There’s a larger number that actively fights it in every possible way. Even if it helps them, they fight it. How do you overcome that? Because overcoming change, that’s better for them and they still fight it. It’s, it’s this continuous pattern of showing that what is possible and then what is the path to get it done and supporting them and showing them continuously that this is good for the organization, this is good for you, it’s good for the organization.

And as you said, some people will never get it, but you just go on, you just keep going on. And in an organization, they say you only need 3% of the employees to say, heck yeah, we’re doing this. When you get the momentum to go. So if I always look at like, can I get 3%? I can get 3%. You got the, the leaders, the fast, there’s the original leaders and then there’s the fast followers. And the fast followers are really who make it happen. And that’s the percent. Yes, yes. Yeah. So, but, so the change management, what you’re doing, creativity and change management is very connected.

I know change management is an, is a whole discipline right around that. How much has change management embrace the idea that creativity is the heart of what we’re doing here? I don’t know if they’ve gotten there mentally. I, I, I, I don’t know because, you know, I don’t necessarily work with those types of groups. You know, my focus is on those that can make real change, which are those that are at the top of the house. Okay, well, but I think change management is what the people at the top of the house is always, are always trying to do change management.

Right. Because they’re always trying to get how do we steer the ship in a way that is, you know, going to be conducive. For us being successful on this product line. And they, they, I would think they’re working with the change that, that it would be at the very top. Yeah, absolutely. And we know that 87% of all change initiatives fail. And the reason they fail. Yeah, right. The reason they fail is because the executive team is misaligned. So they’re in the room and they’re all shaking their heads and then they, they leave there and they weren’t in alignment and so now they’re going out to their own departments and saying different things.

And the work groups that I work with, we don’t leave that room until everyone stacks hands and says we are 100% aligned. And here are the actions that we’re going to take. And the other reason that change fails is because the executive team may have been working on it for six months, a year, and then they put it out to the organization and they’ve now moved on to the next project. I mean, change management is a pattern of, you know, of years to make a change. Okay, well, let’s talk about politics, which is we’re seeing so much change in the world today.

Right. And the change that’s being implemented onto the, the people of the world, but specifically on to Americans is often very orchestrated. And in public life, they’re orchestrating change in our society. And. But at the top, amongst politicians, they fight a lot and they see it as almost, they see it as a game. They don’t even really care necessarily what’s really happening. It almost becomes a sporting event just to win. So how do you get them to see that your behavior is changing culture? And I mean, you see it, right? I mean, we’re in a really turbulent time right now and that their behavior is changing culture.

And you need to be cognitive of that and how we can get this. Get into a different mindset. Yeah, unfortunately, you know, we probably have gone along the continuum of capitalism to the. A very dangerous degree. Right. Where it is all about what’s in it for me or what’s in it for the people that I’m aligned with. And what is occurring is people in America, you know, 330 million Americans, you know, we’ve thought we’ve stopped being thinkers for ourselves in saying what is the truth. And it’s also really challenging to get the truth right. It depends on what news station you’re watching.

It depends on what paper you’re reading. It’s like there’s not a source of truth like there was, you know, 25 years ago. Yeah, well, and the truth 25 years. We were more curious back then. We weren’t afraid to question things back then. We just had a different culture. The truth probably was pretty controlled back then because it was more consolidated. But we weren’t afraid to question things. And we weren’t punished for it either. Absolutely. We’re at a difficult space right now in this country. Yeah, we are. I would say that capitalism, when companies have free reign and our constitution is ignored because the constitution and the government itself, the way of government is there to keep businesses, the capitalism, for it to work, right, it’s supposed to balance it out.

So it works. When it gets out of balance, then you have the companies getting more power than they should. But that’s because they’re global companies now. Like you look at Apple or you look at Nvidia or Microsoft or Amazon, and these guys are global behemoth, you know, multi trillion dollar companies. Their market caps are what we’ve never seen before. The whole structure of the world has changed. So it no longer is the power dynamic that’s just internal to the United States. Now it becomes this global power dynamic with global institutions. And we’re trying to make a constitution and a free society work with global companies who don’t care anymore about the, the values that we were built on.

100% agree. Okay, so. Well, what’s your. So how are you going to fix this? Come on. I’m fixing it one person at a time. So I did a TED talk last October right before the election. And of course, when you’re on the TED stage, you can’t talk about religion or politics and things like that. But if you listen to my TED talk now, which 300,000 people have listened to it, you see, my message in there is around having a divided country and all the things that we, this was experienced before the election. And I said, curiosity can save us.

If we were truly in our hearts, open to what other people had to say and what their point of view is. Not that I have to agree with your point of view, but if I understood it, maybe that we could begin. Right. And so it’s, it’s. We’re not even listening to each other anymore. That’s right. And the, and the thought leaders in our country need to knock it off. They need to mature. The people who are running companies, the people who are in anybody. You don’t have to run a company. You could be just a parent.

It doesn’t, you don’t have to be. Have a big title. But I always say the adults, the adults in the room need to step up and start acting like adults. I agree. I. I wish we could find some adults to do that. Okay, well, what is the name of your book and where the heck can they find it? So the name of the book is called the Curiosity Curve, and it’s based on my three decades of experience in corporate America, and it’s based on my research, primary research, on the power of curiosity to drive performance. And you can find it on Amazon.com okay, excellent.

Thank you so much, Deborah. I think this is incredibly important topic. I think this is what’s going to take us to the next level. I do have one more question. Where is it that we, you know, the curiosity and the drive for us to move forward and innovate. Where does the curiosity or the questioning of should humans do this? Should we incorporate biological and technology, you know, biology and advanced technology together, you know, nano. Should we do these things? Should we figure out ways to manipulate emotions? You know, where is that curiosity to innovate versus questioning? Should we? I mean, to me, they’re one in the same in terms of being innovative and creative and curious.

I mean, that’s how we evolve as a species. It’s how we evolve as an individual. It’s. I mean, for me, I couldn’t. I couldn’t breathe if I didn’t have those things in my life. Yeah. So you. The questioning, should we do this? Versus can we do this? And how to do this needs to be part of the equation. Absolutely. Okay. I knew you were going to say that. I feel like we done that. Okay. Thank you so much, Deborah. You’re welcome. Thank you for having me. Appreciate the conversation. Saint.
[tr:tra].