UNBOWED SAVED BY A COWBOY A RABBI AND A CARPENTER – THE STORY OF THE J6 GRANDMA

➡ Lisa Schermerhorn interviews Cindy Lu Young, author and survivor of a plane crash when she was 18 months old. Cindy shares her life story, including her survival from the crash, breast cancer, and alcoholism. She also discusses her book “Out of the Fog,” which details her experiences and has helped others find closure. Cindy’s story is one of resilience and truth-seeking, as she continues to research the circumstances of the plane crash, including the presence of a high-ranking government official on board.
➡ The text is about a woman who went through a difficult trial and was sentenced for misdemeanors. She found solace in nature and began writing a book about her experiences. She faced challenges with her probation officers and struggled with the aftermath of her trial. Despite her past struggles with substance abuse, she had been sober for 38 years, a fact that seemed to be overlooked during her sentencing process.
➡ The text discusses a person’s experience with the legal system, feeling unfairly treated due to misdemeanor charges. They felt degraded by the restrictions imposed on them, such as not being able to leave the state and having to undergo unannounced drug tests. They also felt the trial was biased, with the prosecution and FBI appearing to work together, and a juror who had previously shown bias against them. They also mention a police officer encouraging people to enter the Capitol, suggesting a setup.
➡ The text discusses a trial where evidence was initially sealed and not allowed to be discussed. The defendant was previously identified and sanctioned, but this information was not allowed to be used in the trial. The trial also involved a video of a tear gas incident, which was used to argue that the police line fell due to the crowd surge. However, the defense argued that the police line fell because the police accidentally gassed themselves. The text also mentions various incidents of violence and misconduct by the police, including shooting rubber bullets at people’s heads and beating individuals. The role of the vice president during the situation was also discussed, with the argument that he was intentionally kept in the Capitol building to make certain charges stick.
➡ A person was sentenced to four months in prison, two months of house arrest, two years of probation, and a $4000 fine for four misdemeanors. They were supposed to report to prison on January 28th, but were hoping for a pardon from President Trump. They attended the inauguration and were disappointed when no pardons were announced. However, they later received news of their pardon during a Newsmax interview, but faced issues with their probation officer who claimed there was no proof of the pardon. After seeking help, the issue was resolved and their sentence was vacated.
➡ The text discusses a person’s experience with legal issues, including being monitored by the FBI, facing arraignment, and dealing with the aftermath of a conviction. The person is fighting against their convictions, not wanting to leave a criminal record behind. They have filed various complaints and lawsuits, including one against the FBI for an unauthorized DNA swab. The person has also written a book about their experiences, which is available on Amazon and soon to be released as an audiobook.
➡ The speaker discusses various lawsuits and legal actions, including a motion to recognize all those affected by an event at the Capitol. They also mention a list of over 3,600 individuals whose identities and affiliations they want to uncover. The speaker plans to become an attorney and praises their friends for their support. They also mention a march to honor those who lost their lives, including Ashley Babbitt, Kevin Greason, Benjamin Phillips, Roseanne Boylan, and an officer named Nick.

Hi, Lisa Schermerhorn here on the Grassroots Warrior Network. And I am excited to bring back a very dear friend of mine, Cindy Lu Young, who’s been through a lot. And for those of you who know her, she’s the J6 grandma. For those of you who don’t, well, you’re in for quite a story. We met, I want to say, was it 15 years ago in Peru? Yeah. I know it’s hard to believe how many years have gone by. Yeah, yeah. We were studying lifetime energy medicine and shamanism in Peru for what, three weeks? And who knew back then? But it’s been quite a wild ride.

And I want to say how proud I am. This is your second book, because I have the first one, out of the Fog, which I’m relaunching, by the way. Good. So many people have read this and want to know the first part of the story, so I think I’ll probably put it out first. I’ll do a second edition because I want to add some stuff to that. Yeah, you have a whole huge story around that. The plane crash. So this is her book. I whip through it, and I’m proud to say I have a couple mentions in there.

So thank you. Well, you were there. Yeah. For the ride. Yeah. So. And you got number one, best new release. Yeah. That was, like, early on, it’s gone a little downhill, but that’s okay. You know, it’s doing its thing, and it’s more important to me to get the. The story out there. And I had somebody, they. They texted me and they said, oh, I’m passing your book to everybody. I know, I know they should buy them, but, you know, and I don’t care. They’re reading it. They’re. That’s getting started. Yeah. And that’s the. The important part.

When you have a book, it’s really about getting your message out. So I don’t know where you’d like to start, because there’s so many places we could start. I don’t know if you want to talk about a little bit about your book, out of the. Out of the Fog, just. Sure. Well, that’s really the beginning of the story, which. Just to give a little overview of that piece of my story, my life. When I was 18 months old, I was in a plane crash with my mother. We were coming from LaGuardia Airport in New York, headed to Nantucket, coming back from Ohio, and The plane crashed 600ft, I think it was, from the Runway and in the fog.

So the name of the story is out of the fog. And that story just takes you through my experience, which I have no memory because I was only 18 months old. So I had to research a lot of it, but. And also word of mouth, what people would tell me as I was growing up over the years in my own experience of living through it, through just dealing with everybody’s recollections of it and everything. So I wrote the book about it, I researched it, I met a lot of people through it. That what I didn’t realize, and I think.

I think Unbowed will probably do the same thing. There were a lot of people that needed healing and they had never had any type of closure to the story. And it was traumatic. I mean, that crash on an island, it was a bigger plane, 34 passenger. They weren’t prepared for the devastation of a crash like that. They were. They were taking people out of the woods on two by fours, you know, and bringing them to the hospital. And they. Most of them didn’t make it. So their memories of the horrific aftermath, like, you know, just looking through the wreckage and finding the bodies and all the death, it was traumatic for them and the hospital to describe, you know, in Nantucket, which was a little island.

It’s not. Wasn’t what it is now with all these mansions on it. It was a, you know, an island of a lot of fishermen. Right. And. Yep. And even now, the hospital doesn’t really do major trauma. If you’ve got a broken leg, they ship you off the island to the Cape to. Or to Boston. So when I wrote the book and I launched it, I went out there, did a book signing, and I had people coming up to me, thanking me for helping them to put some closure. Then they wanted to make a memorial because they had never done anything to recognize those that died and memorialize them.

So they made a memorial site. And so a lot of good came out of it and, you know, launched into this story, which I thought I was done with the survival piece. Well, you also recovered. You recovered from breast cancer. Yeah, alcoholism. And that’s. That’s the crazy part. So that’s our shamanic training, Lisa, is that when we deal with traumatic stuff, we process it through our bodies. And I. So in writing that book, I’m processing a lot about my mother. Left side of the body. Right. And where do I get the breast cancer? Left side of the body for the heart.

So, you know, and that was like. I launched the book in April, and in September that year, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Yeah. So. And I. Another, you know, I’M just too tough to die, I guess. I don’t know. But I went through, you know, mastectomy and chemo and all of that stuff and then just carried on. And when we went to Peru, I don’t know if you remember, but I certainly remember we worked with the twins and we had some of those San Pedro ceremonies and at one of them, Olin. Olinda. Olinda, she looked at me and she said, no more cancer.

All emotion. Yeah. You know, so I remember that I just got the chills as a confirmation. But yeah, it was very powerful the, that they’re. They’re referred to as the twin shamans, but they’re really not twins. But they are. It’s a very, whatever, bizarre situation. But yeah, so you’ve overcome so much. But one thing about you that I know is that you’ve always been about the truth. Yeah. It’s always like to know the truth. And even in your other book, you went so far into research, every single person who passed away in that. And you gave them.

It’s like you gave them life. It’s like you put their bios in there. So everyone got an opportunity to get to know all of those people, which I found really touching. I thought it was. Do you want to talk about the interesting person that was on that flight? Absolutely. So, you know, and when I wrote the book, I wrote about him, but I didn’t comprehend about him like I do now, knowing what I do now. And so on the plane with me was the head of the Atomic Energy Commission, Gordon Dean. And he worked with Oppenheimer to develop the bomb.

And he was involved in the tribunals, the Nazi tribunals. He was very high level in government. In fact, one thing I read about that I didn’t even really realize was a thing I knew we talk about Q. Right. He had Q level clearance. Wow. I found it. And I was like, holy moly. Q level. You know, and that was what. When I found this audio of a nurse she did for the historical committee. She did a whole audio of her logging in each person as they came in from the crash. And he was one of the first people they brought in.

And she looked through his pockets, she saw all the paperwork, the Q level clearance, all of his identification. And she looked at somebody and she said, call the FBI. This could be sabotage. And I was like, oh my gosh. You know, and. And I found this out just like last year. Right. You know, and. And again, you know, my. Not to be woo woo. But this is how I operate. My mom guides me all the time. And for whatever reason, it was like, pick up that book. Pick up that book. Look at it. Look what you wrote.

And then I started looking into him and I was like, holy moly. And I sent somebody just a snippet, and I said, what do you think about this? And they were like, oh, my God, you were on the Titanic. Yes. So was there any sabotage? Was it. Was there foul play? You will never know. It was chopped off as pilot error. But what I do know today is that most plane crashes aren’t just an accident. Exactly. And if you look at who were on the plane, you’d know that it’s probably not an accident. And the interesting thing about him was that people were destroyed.

They were burned, they were. Bodies were broken. He had no injuries. Yeah. Which was very strange to me. So. Wow. But he. But he died. But he died. Or was he already dead? I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s really interesting. So did you. Was there anything that you. In your research that you would get a reason why? Well, you know. No. No. No reason why. And it’s all, you know, my own theories, but when I look at people, I tend to look at their connections and who. Their players, who they play with, who they talk with.

And I mean, I was coming up with names like Al Gore, the Rockefellers, you know, these are not good names. No. That’s so interesting. So, so fast forward, you know, you were continuing. So you had, you know, a quiet life working and living in. In New Hampshire, doing your energy medicine work, and you had a. Your own beautiful business shop. And I have to say. And I have a little bowl that you made, but I’m still pining for the giant mousse you did with all the bead work. I. I saw there was a shop in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, that had all these faces and heads with all the.

The bead. I mean, her work is magnificent. And I’ve seen you’ve done moccasins, you’ve done bowls, you’ve done. And I don’t do any of it now. No. Wow. The amount of detail. Yeah. That goes into that. And it takes. It takes a real centered, calm heart. And I haven’t had that. Yeah. In a few years. But. But I mean, very extraordinarily talented woman. I hope you can get back to that at some point. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. So now you’ve written this beautiful book unbowed. So if you want to take people through the process of, you know, writing the book and your story and how this came to be.

Well, that book was an easier process for me in the fact that I lived it. And it was more my words, my experience, my emotion than out of the fog was. You know. So anyway, I started writing it. I actually started writing it right after trial. Right. Kevin Hoyt, who’s the cowboy in the book, he. I got home and I was a mess. I was like. The probation officer called me, and course, the minute your trial is over, they’re on to more interviews, getting you prepped to go to prison or sentencing. They do what’s called a sentencing interview, so they wanted to get that rolling right away.

And I was like. I was. I was falling apart. You know, it. I probably couldn’t put it to words as what that whole experience does to you, but you sit in a courtroom for five days and you hear everything twisted, and. And you’re painted to be the worst thing on earth. And so I’m processing, coming home. What’s true, what’s not true? This is true. This is not. Where do I sit with all this blah, blah, blah? But I just walked through my door, and I looked around, and what was a comfortable place to me was no longer comfortable because I knew it might be gone.

Yeah. So. So my probation officer called me, and the first thing she said to me was, oh, Cindy, I’m so sorry. And I was like, what? You know, Jonathan used to tell me she’d smile at you walking through the prison, so don’t think. You know. So anyway, I just lost it with her, and I was. You know, I was dropping f bombs and telling her, I need to get out of here. I need to get to nature. I knew, based on who I am, that nature would settle me. So. And Kevin had opened up the possibility of going up to Vermont to his camp.

So, of course, I couldn’t go to Vermont without permission because, you know, I wasn’t allowed to leave the state in New Hampshire, and probation would have to give me permission and all of that. So I just lost it on her. And she ended up. She called Jonathan. They talked. She said, do you think it’s a good idea? And Jonathan was like, yeah, he supported it. So she called me back, and she gave me the restriction that even though I was going off grid, was. Which was kind of scary to them because they had no way of monitoring me.

Yeah. So she told me that I’d have to find service and call her, like, midweek. I said, fine, I’ll do that. I was surprised that they actually let you do it, especially going off grid. Yeah, I mean, in her mind, I was going to be swinging from a tree, the mental state I was in. So. So anyway, I went to Vermont and it was what I needed. I needed the time, I needed the space. I started writing the book. There was. Yeah, that was one of the things I did because being in the woods, the quiet, I just started writing.

And there was a lot that isn’t in the book because it was just me flushing things, you know. And so anyway, I stayed there. I, I kind of gathered my senses. I don’t know if I was there for a week or two, might have been two. And then I came home and started to face some music. And the music never stopped because again, I had. Now I had a probation officer from D.C. after trial, not just New Hampshire. And they called me and they wanted to do an interview. This lady’s name was Candace Bron. And she, she starts the interview with all the questions that they already wrote about and ask me.

It’s like they want to keep traumatizing you, you know, and, and keep opening up your wounds and making you vulnerable to whatever their, their power play is. Right. So, you know, the first thing I said to her was, did you read the other report? She, she was like, well, we have to do our own investigation. I was like, okay. So then she. And Jonathan’s on the line with me, my attorney, who. He’s the rabbi in the book. Yeah. So I just want to say. So it’s Unbowed, Saved by a cowboy, a rabbi and a carpenter. When the storm rose, she stood.

So I want to get clarity for people when you talk about the cowboy, the rabbi and the carpenter. So, yeah, so Kevin Hoyt’s the cowboy. The cowboy. Jonathan Gross is the rabbi. Yeah. And David Sumrall, who’s a very good friend of mine, is the carpenter who testified at my trial, who really gave them an eye opening testimony. He deserved an award for that. That was something like, you know, your Perry Mason moment. Yeah, yeah. Oh, do you want to talk about that? Well, we can, but we’ll, we’ll, we’ll wait on that. As you were talking about.

So, so just. So this was a year ago in the summer. You had your trial and then the sentencing was originally, what, October. It was a Halloween. And then you got that date changed to November and then you have to go through from November until they actually give you the date when you have to show up. And I kept saying to you, I don’t see you. I, I don’t know. Everybody said that, Lisa. It was crazy. But I. But even it’s still terrifying. It’s terrible. And I couldn’t let myself believe that, because if I did and then the rug got pulled out, I was not in a.

So you were preparing. Because here are the things that people don’t think about in this whole thing. Who pays your rent? Who pays your utility, who pays for your car? Who manages your accounts? Who manages your counts when you’re gone? And then once you go, all of the things, like, is it federal or state where you can’t vote anymore? Like, there are certain things that if you’re taking away. But okay, I had misdemeanors. Misdemeanors. Yeah. Which it’s really. Until January6, it was unheard of for people to be placed in prison for misdemeanors. Yeah. But after January six, things changed.

And so when I was sentenced, which was in November 21, I went to court with Jonathan. We were there. We thought we’d be out, like, in an hour or two. It was all day. And one of the things that the judge said at the very end of the sentencing was, if you’d only said you were sorry, I wouldn’t send you to jail. And I couldn’t. I wouldn’t. I. Because that would be admitting I had. Saying that you did something wrong. Right. So you were also. Because I cut you off when you were talking with Jonathan and your probation officer.

Oh, yeah. In D.C. yeah. Yeah. So we’re talking, and I say. She starts asking me about, you know, prior drug use. Of course, I was very active in my teens and twenties. And she starts listing all these items. And I said to her, being me, I said, why don’t you just say what you didn’t do? And after the call, Jonathan calls me and goes, I have questions. But here’s the thing. Yes, I did all those things. And I had, you know, issues with alcohol and drugs in my early years, which out of the Fog tells you about.

I had 38 years sobriety. Yeah. And they looked at it like it was nothing, you know. Well, it’s a degrading process. Yeah. And that’s their intention, is to make you feel. Yeah. You know, it’s not just the test. They were drug testing me. 38 years sobriety. And I had to do urinalysis tests, which. That’s not just. You go in the bathroom and you hand them a cup. No, they watch. Yeah. Which is another degrade. I’d be there for an hour. I know. And. And I turn it into a joke. Like, she’d show up. I’D go. So we going to go to the bathroom today? You know, because that’s.

That’s how I deflect. Right. Humor. I do and I always have. So anyway, we get through that whole exp. Oh, one of the things they wanted. Now, again, we’re talking misdemeanor charges. Right. That’s like having a traffic ticket or trespassing or. Which it was. Right, it was trespassing. Yeah. So where was I going with that? So I forget. Misdemeanor charges. I lost it. Anyway, they just treat them like they’re felonies. You know, the restrictions I had. I couldn’t leave, you know, the state. I had to turn over my passport. I had to be drug tested unannounced, all of that stuff, which is really degrading and really, you know, it just puts you in a place where you feel like you have no control over your life anymore.

You’re owned. One of the hardest things to witness, as someone who was in the court, was you like to think that the United States and our system is fair. Right. You know, we are raised. We were raised in this environment. Thank God we live in the United States States, because we have everything that’s fair. And what I witnessed over and over and over again were incredible lies. The scale being tipped so far against you that it was a joke for the standpoint of I don’t know really anything about the law, so I can’t speak to it.

But the little things that I did know is like, I know that you’re supposed to. If you are testifying, you’re supposed to be sequestered. And that happened right at the beginning of the trial. That move was, like, done so quickly and so under the wrapper that I don’t think any of us really picked up what just occurred. So the two FBI agents who investigated, three who investigated Cindy Lou, who literally said, you didn’t do anything wrong in writing, not only got to sit in on the entire trial, listen to each other, listen to each other’s testimonies, both sides.

One of them was actually at the prosecution prosecutor’s table. Yeah. And listened to all the. They in. In. In D.C. they have those hushers, so you can’t hear what they’re saying, you know, for sidebar. And it was like this big, giant white noise machine. But he got to listen to everything. So when does someone. So when does someone who’s testifying get to listen and watch the entire thing and be part of the. Participated in the jury selection? Yeah. You know, think about it. Think about an FBI agent and how they profile. Yeah. And he’s picking the jurors.

Yeah. With the prosecution. And you had one juror who was. Who had just finished a J6 trial, and they had actually admittedly. Admittedly that. That she felt that they were guilty and she got to be on your jury. Yep. Yep. And Jonathan would, you know, object and. And motion to move, remove them for cause, and Harvey would deny it. You know, that’s how it went. Objection. Denied. Objection. Denied. And yet every time he tried to make a point, she would interrupt over and over and over again. That was the game. One day. It was obnoxious, wasn’t it? It was like.

So even if you’re trying to get a point across, the constant interruptions, which is a game, keeps the jury from really getting the whole string. It’s. It’s like taking a string and chopping it up to pieces. You don’t get to really take it in. Right. And think about the psychological. What the jury is internalizing. They’re seeing the full weight of the government, FBI aligned with the prosecution, all sitting together as one. You know, they’re. They’re seeing that, and they’re like, ah, well, she must be guilty. You know, But I believe that that jury. I don’t believe there was one.

Jonathan used to say to me, all we need is one. All we need is one. But I don’t think you could find one in D.C. i really don’t. I think they were cycling through the jurors, too. Like, using the same jurors over the years. Yeah, right. They were using the same. Yep. Yeah. And then we had the one juror who gets up there. They. They ask them, like, 30 questions. They have to answer them, and if they answer yes, they’re brought up to the stand to explain their answer. Well, one of the questions, which was a real important one.

Do you have any feelings, strong feelings against Donald Trump or his supporters? So I have this juror who’s an attorney on a law firm that actually wrote a brief against Donald Trump. He slides through that question. He didn’t answer. He didn’t answer it because he’s an attorney, and he knows just how to maneuver. He gets on my jury, and now he’s the foreman of my jury. He’s elected the foreman. If you’re a juror and you really don’t understand the law and you’ve got this hotshot attorney as a foreman telling you, well, she’s guilty, you’re gonna go with it.

Well, here’s something that. And I know you know this after the trial. Right. So your attorney Jonathan asked the jurors if he could sit with them and just ask them how they came to their decision. It’s not illegal. Yeah. What could I have done? Yeah. And so there was one person who stayed, and we didn’t understand the ramifications of it then, but they said we were really struggling and didn’t know how to decide. But luckily, we had an attorney on. On. On the jury who guided us and helped us come up with our decision. Yeah, there you go.

There you go. Good old Jeremy Brinster. Yeah. Well, last. Last time we did this interview and you mentioned his name, Judge Harvey told you to take down the podcast with the redheads. Right. But let’s talk about that, because Judge Harvey, when he called me in, when I had mentioned his name, he called an emergency hearing to scold me and tell me I couldn’t say his name because it goes against Rule 24.1. Well, let me tell everybody listening, a rule is not a law. Right. Okay. A rule is basically a rule for the justice, this committee. So anyway, he tells me I can’t say his name, and then he says, and I watch your podcasts, and I’ve looked at your Twitter file, and I know that you did a podcast and you mentioned the name with that lady with the red hair, and you need to take it down.

So how does someone remain impartial? Yeah. If they’re watching something like a prosecutor and he’s not allowed to do that. Yeah, not allowed. And it even went further than that because it was just the constant things that happened during the trial. You know, we thought maybe there was a chance he was trying really hard to act impartial. Yeah, it was a good act. He tried. It was a good act. He tried. Yeah. But in the beginning of the trial. And let’s go back in, because. Go back a little bit as you. You walked through the Capitol with American flag and a.

Was it a Trump flag? Right, Trump flag and an American flag. And you walked through, and they actually had recording of you going through the Capitol saying, this place needs a good smudging. Now, smudging for people who don’t know what this is, is sage. It’s a sacred ceremony that’s done to clear your mind. I didn’t even know what it was. Negative energy that’s done with Shaman or anyone who works. So you’re clearing people’s energy field. So she said, this place needs a good saging. That actually came up during the trial along with my jacket, which is going to be in the Smithsonian someday.

That jacket they love to talk about. Oh boy. And, and here’s another thing, okay. If I were an insurrectionist that day, like they tried to say I was, I would not have gone with a red jacket and my Trump scarf and all the things I did. I would be in maybe all black military gear or something. Well, let’s, let’s go to that because here’s the crazy part of all of it. Now that this information is coming out that there were over 200 people that were placed, you can go into more detail. Well, not only that, Lisa, but there was, and you probably didn’t know or, or weren’t cognizant of it, but there was a piece of my trial that was put under seal.

Okay, it’s no longer under seal, but it was for quite a long time that piece that was under seal. There was a cap, Metropolitan police officer. His name was Thomas Sula. And in, In December of 2022, Lara Logan interviewed him with Barry. I forget the congressman’s name, but he’s a big time congressman. And they talked about him. He was dressed as a Trump supporter, telling people, go in the Capitol, go, go, go. And he was on video with me because I walked right by him. So Jonathan had brought it all up in pre trial it got put under seal and even in trial we weren’t allowed to talk about it because it was still under seal.

I think we might have gone closed door at one point to talk about it. But so anyway, after all of this, I went back and motioned the clerk, the court to take it out of seal because six months prior to my pre trial, they had identified him and they had actually said that he was sanctioned for what he did that day. He was, you know, put on suspension for a few days because of it. So they should have never prevented me from using that because it was six months prior to where we wanted to use it.

But they didn’t want that because it went against their narrative. Well, the other part was, you know, and it was something out of the Keystone Cops was the part where they showed the video of the tear gassing incident. That was David. So David Sumrall, let’s talk about. Yeah, so he’s, he’s the carpenter. So, you know, David gets up there and does Jonathan brings, well, yeah, Jonathan brings him up and introduces him as our witness. He was our only witness and, you know, asks him what do you do for work, blah, blah, blah, the common questions. And then he showed him a little bit of our video and didn’t Show a lot of it at that point in time.

But, you know, went through the questioning about it. What are you seeing, what’s going on? So then Becky, the prosecutor, gets up and does her cross. Well, she thought she was just gonna paint David as, you know, the worst thing since sliced bread. So she starts, and she’s asking him, what does 1776 mean to you? And you sell this stuff as, you know, she tried to paint him as a grifter. He told her, you know, yeah, I sell things, and I give it to the J6 defendants. I support them. I support their commissary. I put money, do all that stuff.

So then she says, and you believe that I should go to jail? And he said, well, ma’, am, if you’ve done wrong, yeah, I do. And you believe that the jury should go to jail? Well, ma’, am, if they’ve done wrong, yeah, I do. And you believe that the judge should go to jail? Yes, ma’. Am, if he’s done wrong, he should. You believe in divine justice, don’t you? No, Divine justice is not mine. It’s the Lord’s. You know, he just gave it right back to her. And then she sits down. Before she sits down, she starts playing this video of when they say in their narrative that the police line fell in front of the Western tunnel.

And their narrative is that the crowd surge caused that line to fall. And then they. We overtook the Capitol. So she plays it and Jonathan sitting next to me while she’s playing it. And the way it works is unless they open the door to material, you can’t talk about it. You can’t bring it up. And that’s the part that drove me nuts in the trial, is that you can’t really defend yourself. Right. Right. Oh, they’ve got. They’ve got it all locked down. Yeah. So anyway, she’s playing this video, and obviously she hadn’t looked at Jonathan’s video and what we were about to show.

And she plays it, and Jonathan’s whispering to me, oh, play it till the end. She’s gonna play it till the end. And playing it to the end opens it up to what we wanted to show. So she plays it to the end, sits down, thinks she’s all that. Jonathan gets up and he starts playing his. And she objects immediately. And she says, your Honor, I don’t know where Mr. Gross is going with this. Well, the judge had looked at the video, and he. He sits back in his seat, and he goes, oh, I know exactly where he’s going with it.

So Jonathan Plays it. And he says to David, he goes, you see that Capitol Police? He’s going to shoot that gas into the staging where these people are way up. Yeah. So they. They have. It’s a body cam because they have records of everything from that day. It’s millions of hours. It’s like you can’t even imagine watching all of them. So you see in the distance, there’s the. The seating that’s all set up. And people are just randomly sitting there. Yeah. And they’re not doing anything. They’re just sitting in the stands. He has. It’s like a bazooka.

Right. But there’s a tower. Not only was there the seating, there was like this tower thing, and people were up there waving flags way up in the air. Yeah. And Jonathan goes, he’s gonna shoot that gas at those people up in that tower. And David goes, yeah, kind of looks that way. And then the dummy takes the bazooka and fires it into the cement, and they gas themselves. And then you see them all running, puking, gagging, wiping their eyes. They. They retreat to the Capitol. So the line fell because they gassed themselves. We proved it. Yeah.

We put it on record. Didn’t matter. Yeah. None of that. And that was the. So the. The whole thing was, watching the trial was, where was the line? Where was it? Where they had the line? And then where was it when people were told to come into the Capitol? Because there were. Because when people showed up, there was nothing there, blocking. There were no signs, nothing that said you couldn’t go. And their line was this red line, like a laser line on maps that they said was the line. Right. But if you were there, there was no way that you could know.

And you had people opening the doors, and there’s video of that, letting people in peacefully. Yep. But they Also, at the beginning, when we arrived at the Capitol, they were. They were shooting flashbangs into the crowd. They were shooting rubber bullets at people’s heads. You’re not supposed to shoot a rubber bullet. A rubber bullet is supposed to be shot at the body. Body, not the head, because it can be lethal at the head. And we have one. Josh, his name is. He got one of them in his cheek. I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they.

We had a video on my show. Seven Headshots, we called it. And we traced the bullets. One guy, it takes the cap right off his head. So they were aiming for people’s heads. They were shooting people with rubber bullets. They were shooting people with gas, with flashbangs. You know, we Had Benjamin Phillip died, Kevin Greason died before people ever even entered the Capitol. Because was it the flashbang? Was it the frequency? Probably Hard attack. Yep. So anyway, yeah, you had all that going on. It was intentional. It created the crowd. It stirred up the crowd to what they got, and they.

They knew what they were going. Aiming for. Even in the tunnel, like, people can probably remember the things that played over and over on tv. You see this pack of people trying to get into the tunnel area. Well, what you don’t see is Roseanne Boylan at the bottom of a pig pile, unconscious, being beaten by Lila Morris, who’s a Capitol police with a stage stick. Roseanne died that day. Lila Morris beat her to death. And then you have. Inside the tunnel, you had Victoria White, who was also being attacked by multitudes of Capitol police, hitting her in the head, Keeping hitting.

I mean, this woman has PTSD like you wouldn’t even imagine. So the people that were trying to get in, these were men that were trying to stop the chaos and stop these women from being beaten. They were trying to protect them. Right. And here was the other thing that I did not know that was very surprising was the role of the vice president during that whole situation and why it was important that he stayed at the Capitol. And they intentionally kept him. Because if this was supposedly an insurrection and they were worried about all the congressmen and the senators and all the people were people coming in, and you don’t know what they have because they’re not going through magdrometers.

Right. They left to put him in the basement. They left him in the building. Yeah. And the reason was because to make the charges stick, he had to be in the building. And so they put him in the tunnels, which is underneath. There’s all tunnel system underneath the Capitol. I don’t even know if he really remained in the tunnels, but. Right. You know, they said he did, but Jonathan did a great job at pointing that out. He was like, you know, when he had the Secret Service agent up there, he said, you know, why would you think it was safe to keep him in the building when you’ve got this chaos going on outside and you’re acting like nothing’s wrong.

Let’s just move him here or move him there. Keep him. Let’s continue with the Senate hearing. Continue. You know, they were just acting like business as usual because they wanted it to go down exactly how it did. Exactly, exactly. And even Nancy Pelosi had admitted. Isn’t there video of her admitting. Yeah. Now she says she didn’t Admit it, she’s back and forth. Depends how many jugs of vibe because she’s had. So. So that was an experience on its own. And you were given a sentence of four months. Four months in Philadelphia prison, followed by two months home detention and two years probation and a four thousand dollar fine for four misdemeanors.

And you were supposed to report what day? I was supposed to report on January 28th. So I have my sentencing on November 21st. I have to call every week to find out if they’ve got a place for me. I mean, even that’s stupid. Why should you have to call? Do you have a bed for me? So I had to call them every week. And finally I get a call from the probation. This was like maybe two days before Christmas. They love to wait until important days. Your birthday, Christmas, anything they can ruin, that’s what they want to do.

So she calls me and she goes, yes, we have your designation. And I said, oh, okay, what is it? She goes, you have to report at Philadelphia Prison by no later than 2pm on January 28th. And I went, what date? Because I knew that Trump had just been elected and I knew he had promised to pardon us. And the inauguration was on the 21st. Was it? Yeah, we were. And we were in D.C. together for that. Yeah, we got pictures of that. And it’s in the book, too. Yeah, yeah. And that was a really nice time, Lisa.

Thank you for including me with that. Oh, my God, of course. Yeah, of course. You were at the gulag with me. It was freezing. We were standing out there waiting for people to be. For people to understand what the gulag is. Yeah. So in D.C. so this is really funny because for me to go to the inauguration, I had to get permission from the judge because I was banned from D.C. for life. Yeah. Because I still had my sentence that said I couldn’t go down this street. Street. That street. I. And to go into dc, I had to have the judge’s permission, and it had to be for business, you know.

So we motioned the court and Jonathan said, she’d like to go to the inauguration. She’s been invited to one of the balls and blah, blah, blah. And we waited and we waited and we waited. And he finally said I could go. Of course, Becky doesn’t want me to go. And she says that I should not go to D.C. because I would traumatize the Capitol Police. So that picture that you just showed, I put it in there just to show how traumatized they were with my presence. Those are two cap. Those are two Capitol Police officers there.

Isn’t that awesome? And then I went up to them, and I went, do I scare you? No. And then here you are at the. It’s so hard. It’s inauguration at the inaugural ball, and I met so many people there. You know, I met cool people, some really cool people. Yeah, it was a great night. It was something I would probably never do again because I’d never have the opportunity, but it was. It was cool. Never say never. You never. I know, I know, I know. But, yeah, it was a beautiful night, and some really extraordinary people were there speaking.

We had. What is it? Quinn’s son was there. I met him. Who’s the. The guy. The Colonel Sanders guy. Oh, Chris. Chris. He’s been doing some work on podcasts. Yeah, a lot of. Jason Sanders. Colonel Sanders. Yeah, Chris Sanders. Who else do we have there? Oh, Angela Stanton King. Who’s the one that. The opera singer lady. No, she. She’s the niece of Martin Luther King. Oh, yes. Yeah, she spoke. Yeah, she spoke, and she had one of. What is it, Andrew? One of my drawing a blank because I actually got to wear one of his. His gowns.

Yeah, the makeup. He was there, too. He was all, like. He was amazing. We stayed together. We were all in a house together. Oh, my God. Andre Soriano. Yeah. So, yeah, there was some really. He also designs dresses for Melania Trump. Yeah. And he’s. He’s done some really cool stuff, so there were some really interesting people. And Sophia, Eric had. She had run that ball, helped do it. And there was a conference, and Robert. Dr. Robert Malone was there, and he had spoken at the conference. I got to sit on stage with him and speak. I was like this.

I was like, just pinch me. It was really interesting. So the next day, we knew Trump was gonna supposedly do the pardons, right. During his speech, he thought. And it was really cold. They actually changed the inauguration ceremony and put it inside, and nobody could go. Only people that were dignitaries. Right. So we watched it from the hotel room, and we were a little disappointed when he said nothing about the party. You know, Jonathan was disappointed. I was. Suzanne, who was staying with me was. We were, like, really, like someone let the air out of a balloon.

Right. So then we said, okay, let’s go into D.C. as we had all these guys that were in the D.C. jail, not a federal prison, but the D.C. jail. One of them, a very good friend of mine, Jake Lang, spent four years and six days in that jail. And explain, was he ever. Wasn’t. He never went to Trial, Never went to trial. Four years in solitary. Moved from prison to prison to prison. 17 different prisons. I mean, he. How that guy came out intact, I don’t know. I don’t. And I’m very good friends with him. He was never charged, right? No, he was charged.

Yes, they did. Superseding indictments on him. And he. He was holding up because he knew that they had not given full discovery. And he was like, I’m not going to go to trial until I have discovery. So he would, you know, he would push back on going to trial as well. I would have to. So, anyway, we went to hopefully hear that they were pardoned and see them released. They weren’t released that day. No. It was brutal. Cold. Brutally cold. But the energy, I mean, was it cool or what? It was really cool. But then you did get notification.

Was it that day or the next day that. That there was pardons coming? Correct. We knew that. Gone. Trump had gone to the arena, and everybody was like, he’s probably going to do the pardons at the arena. Or, you know, shortly thereafter. And I had gone. I had an interview with Newsmax, and I was supposed to do it in their studio. So I drove with Suzanne. It was Suzanne and I. We were supposed to be interviewed together. And we drove into town, and course, the roads were all shut down because of the inauguration. And I was like, how do I get to Newsmax when the roads shut down? So we pull over, and we’re sitting on the side of the road.

I’m behind a car, and. And we said, all right, we’ll just, you know, zoom in from here and do the interview. And the cop comes up, and, course, I’m still getting a little freaked out when a cop comes up to my window and he says, ma’, am, you can’t park here. And I’m like, oh, okay. I was behind a car. I thought I could. And he goes, no, you need to back up and maybe go in that little parking area, which was like a little park. Well, I was so nervous, I couldn’t even back up the car.

Finally, he goes, ma’, am, I’ll back up your car. So he backs up my car for me. Oh, my God, that’s so funny. And we get in there, and we did the interview in the car. And as we’re doing the interview, the newscaster says, you’ve just been pardoned. And it was like, yeah. And what was cool was the whole ride home, I was getting calls from everybody. Everybody happy. Feeling good. I was feeling good. I get home and I Get a call from my probation officer, and she says, we have no proof that you’ve been pardoned.

It’s not on the docket. We’re proceeding with transferring you to. To Philadelphia. And I’m like, oh, no, you’re not. So I called David Summerall. I called Jonathan. I called everybody in the world, and I said, help. And they ran it up the line. Of course, Harvey, my judge, says, I don’t know if I have the authority to vacate her sentence. He had the authority to put me there, but he didn’t want to have the authority to not put me there. So it gets run up to Ed Martin, and Ed Martin was newly coming in, and he, you know, sends a memo to Harvey and says, you do have the authority, and you need to get it done now.

And it got done. Yeah, so. So you were down to the wire. But I’ll tell you, Lisa, I would have never been transferred to Philadelphia. Nope. No, it wouldn’t happen. No. But it was just emotionally, it’s. It’s physically, emotionally, spiritually, all of that of what you had to go through, and there’s. There’s so much more. I don’t. You know, there’s so much in the book that, you know, you really can’t tell them the whole book, but. The whole book. Get the book. Yeah, it’s available on Amazon. And then you’re also finishing up the audiobook. It’s going to be available on audio within 10 days.

It’s going through the review process. So, yeah, we’ll see how it does. I might know I might. Might get kicked back at me because I didn’t have the end. The end. That’s what happened to mine. It’s like, are you serious? And I was traveling, so I had to wait to come back. And then it was good because I did an actual edit of the whole thing and made a few corrections. So it worked out. You know, we didn’t talk. Every time I do a podcast with Lisa, I get in trouble. Literally. The first. The first time was after you were notified that everything was okay.

You were ready to tell your story. We recorded the video, but it never. And I sent it to. To be put up, but it never got put up. And then all of a sudden, you get a call from. Was it the FBI to report to. That they had issued the warrant, and I needed to go to the federal courthouse for arraignment. And so they were monitoring me. They monitored that whole. They probably monitoring me now. Hey, Judge Harvey. How you doing? And then. So that. And then when you mentioned the juror the last time, you were told to take it down.

Yeah. So, yeah, I’m always like, are you sure you want to do an interview? Well, you know, and I will tell you this because I’ve done a lot of continuing work on legal stuff, and again, about this juror. So I do a motion about the juror that’s in process. It’s in play with my appeal. And Dave Summerall did a tweet about it and said, you know, reminded them what the. The. What they do with people that commit treason and are not good on the bench. That it’s prison time. Yeah. And he gets a visit from the FBI.

This is under Trump’s administration. Wow. So the FBI comes to his house, knocks at the door. No. Doesn’t even knock at the door. They come in the backyard through the fence and go, Mr. Summerall. So he goes, and he says, what are you doing here and why are you here? And he goes, oh, wait a minute. I know why you’re here. They said, oh, we. We’re here because we think you’ve been threatening a juror. And he goes, oh, you mean Cindy Young’s case? No, I haven’t. Have I done anything against the law? They said, no. Is this 1984? No.

So then they. He said, then why are you here? Oh, we’re here to check a box, they say. And then they say, we’ve read your file. We know what’s going on in your file. When he had asked for his file, they said they didn’t have a file. So there’s stuff going on with the FBI still to this day. Well, they have to clean house. Yes. And there’s people that are still there playing the rotten game of weaponization. People need to understand that. Yeah, no, it was insane with all of that and what. What he’s been through.

So now what I want people to understand, because I didn’t know this with the legal part of a pardon, is it doesn’t mean that you’re exonerated. It just means you’re not going to go to jail. Right. How does that work? So what you’re appealing is something. My convictions. Your convictions? Yes. I don’t want a record. And, you know, some people might say, you’re 68, use it as a badge of honor. No, I don’t want that. I don’t want my granddaughter to remember me as the grandma with four convictions. And basically, if it had been on the up and up, it might have been different, but it wasn’t right.

And I’m not gonna go down without a fight on this. I, I’ve pushed it. I’ve done judicial complaints, I’ve done bar complaints, I’ve done an appeal. I’ve done. David Summerall and I are suing the FBI, the oig, the doj, all of them. Because when you submit a foia, which is your right, you can submit your FOIA and say, I want to know this about myself. What you have. I want to know my case. So freedom of, of information. Yes, yes. So what we did was we submitted FOIA on who gave the order for the FBI to go to Dave’s house.

We want to know, and we want to know what the communications were around that. Well, the 20 day period went by. No answer. Not even a blip. Like we’re not going to answer you. Nothing. So finally we filed, we filed a suit to ask the court to force them to do their job. So we’ll see. So are you parked as there’s a lawsuit? There’s another lawsuit that’s going on, a big one. Correct. There’s. Well, there’s the one for all of us, which is our, our SR95s or S SR95s. I think we have Peter Tickin and another guy, a couple lawyers that are working to push those through.

But, you know, that’s going to take time. And one of the things that I do have a lawsuit on is that the FBI agent when I was arraigned, so what happened was I went in, he told me I had to be at the courthouse at when it opened. I got there when it opened, he wasn’t there. So I walked myself into the U.S. marshals. And the U.S. marshals, being federal agents, began the process of processing me. So they had control over processing me for my arraignment. They took my fingerprints, they took my pictures, pictures of my tattoos, all my information.

Then I’m. Oh, and they put the pink shackles on me, you know, so I’m sitting there in my pink shackles for misdemeanor. For misdemeanor, Yep. So I’m sitting there in my pink shackles and in walks Garland, the FBI agent, and he says, we’ve got one more thing we got to do. We’ve got to do a DNA swab. So I’m in shackles. I’m not going to say no. So I submit to the DNA swab. They swab my mouth and off he goes. He never gives me a piece of paper to sign. He never tells me I have the option.

He never says nothing. But he also didn’t have the authority to do that. And there is a ruling that came out of Congress that says misdemeanor charges do not get DNA analysis swabs. You don’t. It’s not allowed. So he was acting out of his authority. If anybody should have DNA swabbed me, it should have been the US Marshals. But if you look at my charging warrant, it never said collect DNA sample. Didn’t say anything about it. So I’ve got a suit. You can’t sue the doj. You can’t sue the judge. You can’t sue anybody in government, but you can sue the FBI.

And I’m suing him for $5 million. Wow. Now, was he the one who was at the table? He was the one at the table, yeah. So he was there through the entire prosecution. What’s their motivation for taking your DNA in the first place? I’d like to know. Yeah, I’m just curious, like, what’s the motivation for having. Well, usually, I mean, if you read about DNA sampling, if I was a felon, that they expected I had committed rape or something. Right. Then they have your. Yes, I understand. For that. Right. So they had your coat. So they already knew they didn’t need your DNA.

And now they have my cloned voice, so they can clone me. So I want to go back to this amazing book. Please support this amazing woman. Unbowed. Saved by a cowboy, a rabbi, and a carpenter. When the storm rose, she stood. And that she has because she had. How many people were. Read the back. Read the back. Read the little blurb on the back cover. If you stand for nothing, you fall for everything. And the one on the bottom. The government tried to silence her. Instead, she wrote, it’s a quick read. I read it in two days.

I had a hard time putting it down. I was just tired. I had to go to bed, and I finished it the next day. But it’s a quick read, and I highly advise you to read it. It’s a great gift for friends and family to really know what our system is like and how we think that we’re treated in a certain way and it’s not. And you know, in a million years, would any of us think that anything like this could ever happen to us? Right. No. And you were exercising your First Amendment. And what was the first thing that the judge said to you? And try.

I want to hear anything about the First Amendment in my courtroom. Yeah. How is that legal? So. So support Cindy Lou and help her through this. And you’re. You’re and all these lawsuits and everything that you’re, you’re going through. And let’s get this expunged from your record. So, yeah, I’m. Oh, one of the other lawsuits that I didn’t mention. So the Capitol Police have put in a suit against the architect of the Capitol that they want to plaque that recognizes them for defending the Capitol. So I filed a motion to intervene and said, wait a minute.

You can’t just recognize them and not the people that lost their lives that day because everybody was affected in some way. So to be fair, I mean, just really recognize all the prosecutors that prosecuted us. Recognize the 275 FBI agents, you know, that were in the crowd. Yeah. So I motioned to intervene. This was months ago and they still haven’t ruled on it. But one of the things the architect came back with, this is just a couple weeks ago, he said, oh, well, you had given us a list of 200 and I forget how many names, but 200 and something names.

We have 3,648 names of. That’s what I want to know, Lisa. I want to know who, who are those 3,648 individuals? What agencies do they work for? I mean, were there more than 275? So can you do another FOIA on that? Yeah, well, I think the, the quicker process would be to let them rule on my motion to intervene, which then I can get into the discovery phase and then I can get that. Okay, versus Voya. They’re just going to ignore me. And then after all this, Cindy Lou’s going to sit for the bar. I’m going to go work for Jonathan.

She’s going to, she’s to going. She’s going to become an attorney now. Yeah. Well, you would be an amazing at it. It’s amazing what skills that you find out you have. Oh, my God. Don’t piss me off. That’s all. That’s the moral of the story. Do what’s right. Do what’s right. So a special thank you to Kevin Hoyt, who was a huge part. Jonathan. David. David. My. My heroes. Yeah. And Kevin changed my life. I know that. And amazing people. Amazing people. But I will. I gotta give myself credit too. Yes. I stood my ground. You did.

And because what I. Oh. What I was gonna go into before was most people took a plea and that’s what they wanted. Did you ever. Did you hear me when I did? That’s one thing you need to know. So. So out of the women that were charged with misdemeanors, that Went to trial. There were four. Four out of several hundred women that were charged with misdemeanors. The rest took pleas. Two of them went to bench trials, which is different than a full jury trial. That’s just you and the judge. The two people that went to trial, myself and Kirsten Niemler, both from New Hampshire.

Live free or die, baby. But unfortunately, Kirsten did time. She did. She. I would have too. You know, it was just timing. Kirsten was very early on. She was like a year ahead of me in her trial. So, you know, she didn’t have that gift of kicking the can down the road and. And waiting it out. And she did what, 11 months? I think she served eight. Eight. They wanted 11. Okay. And she got out on the first stepdad. She did, you know, classes or whatever. So she got released a little early. But it’s a horror show.

And what I’ve told you about with me is enough of a horror show. But these people that were incarcerated, oh, my God. To listen to their stories, it’s. Well, there. So is it. How many people’s committed suicide? Oh, we’ve had quite j. Six. There’s a lot. I’m. I’m gonna say a couple of dozen, maybe. That’s a lot. We’ve had a lot and their lives. We had one man, he was Marine. He was in the DC Gulag. He had leukemia. They didn’t give him his treatments. They were like doing radiation and burning him while he was in.

Imagine being in a cell, freezing, getting through chemo treatment or radiation treatment and not getting any medication. He died. He got. He got out of D.C. when they got released, and a year later he was dead because he wasn’t treated. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, on that. On that happy note. I know, I know. But we do have a thing on January 6th. Yeah. Keep your eyes peeled to the television stations because we’re doing an honorary march for those we lost Ashley Babbitt, Kevin Greason, Benjamin Phillips and Roseanne Boylan. And sick Nick, who’s the officer that died a day later.

We didn’t kill him. He. He consumed to his own injuries or he had a heart attack or something, stroke. So we’re having a march to the capital and just laying flowers at 2:44pm in honor of Ashley Babbitt. So are people invited to go? Should they desire to attend or is this. People can go. It’s mostly going to be J. Sixers that are leading the event because it’s in honor of our community and our connection. But yeah, wow. Amazing. I’m looking forward to. To watching that. Cindy Lou, my hero. Thank you so much. I so appreciate it.

My best friend, Lisa. Thank. You, sam.
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