Justice for Sale: Are Trials Just a Formality?

➡ The article is about a podcast episode where Sarah Westall interviews Anastasia Feinberg, a lawyer who also wrote a book about her life experiences. They discuss the problems with the legal justice system, Feinberg’s life growing up in the former Soviet Union, and her move to the United States. The conversation also covers spirituality, quantum physics, and how these concepts can help people thrive in difficult situations. They also touch on the influence of big tech corporations and the importance of pushing back against corruption.
➡ The speaker grew up in a time of instability and insecurity, with parents who lost their jobs due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Despite their struggles, the speaker emphasizes that wealth isn’t just about money, but also about the quality of family life. They express concern about the current state of the United States, noting a lack of accountability and increasing division. The speaker hopes for a positive shift in the future, but warns that negligence and blame-shifting could lead to a societal collapse similar to what they experienced in their childhood.
➡ The speaker shares their experience of immigrating to the United States after their parents won the green card lottery. They describe the challenges of starting life anew in a different country, learning a new language and culture, and their parents struggling to find work despite being trained engineers. Despite these hardships, they express gratitude for the opportunities they’ve had, including going to law school. They also express concerns about the increasing centralization and control of technology and information, and the potential for abuse of power.
➡ The text discusses the perceived unfairness in the legal system, where outcomes often favor those with more money. It also highlights the importance of investing in physical precious metals to reduce dependence on unstable financial systems. The author expresses concern about the erosion of freedom of speech and the influence of powerful corporations. Lastly, the text explores the concept of non-dual reality, suggesting a shift in perspective can help individuals cope with these issues.
➡ The text discusses the concept of non-dual philosophy, which suggests that everything comes from the same source and there’s no ‘us’ and ‘others’. It encourages shifting our perspective to remove resistance, fear, and negative emotions, and to become neutral observers. The text also emphasizes that this doesn’t mean ignoring injustices or harmful actions, but reacting naturally in the moment. It ends by suggesting that if we strip away labels and beliefs, we can find a harmonious place of acceptance and neutrality.
➡ The text discusses how religious scriptures can be misinterpreted and used to justify harmful actions, such as slavery or mistreatment of women. It emphasizes the importance of understanding the big picture and the core message of love and unity in religious teachings. The text also explores the concept of ego death, which involves letting go of labels and personal narratives, leading to a more peaceful and harmonious existence. Lastly, it suggests that changing one’s perspective can open up new opportunities and improve one’s ability to handle stress and challenges.
➡ The speaker had a unique and enjoyable discussion on their show, covering various topics that all connect in some way. They thanked their guest, who is associated with Skyhorse and Media Relations, and asked them to share the show on their social media platforms. The guest also offers a free meditation on their website for people to try.

No one’s gonna say that if you’re getting raped or killed that you should just give in and accept it. You will react in the moment and that will be a very natural response to that occurrence. So it’s not to be confused with nihilism and just saying, well, I’m just gonna be in a vegetative state and not react to anything. Your natural reaction will come and it can’t be. Foreign. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. And please subscribe below and think about joining my substack at Sarah Westall substack.com or my newsletter. You can sign up for that as well@Sarah Westall.com and remember to give a thumbs up and to subscribe on the platform that you’re watching.

Welcome to Business Game Changers. I’m Sarah Westall. This is going to be a different show today. I have, I hope you give it a chance because I think it’s, it was a fun show to do. But I have Anastasia Feinberg coming to the program. She owns her own law firm and she wrote a book called How I died at age 36 but will live forever. And, you know, what the heck is that? And so can this show. Stay with this show. We first talk about the really screwed up legal justice system, what’s behind it. Why is it screwed up? How people are just, even judges just giving up.

Just the system is just so bad. Why is it so bad? And, and how do we get ourselves here? We talk about that, but she also talks about how she grew up in the former Soviet Union. She left it collapsed when she was 3 or 4. And then she left that region when she was 17 and moved to the United States. And how she calls that the first time she died where she had to learn her own language, she had to have all new friends, total new culture, everything. And we talk about the parallels she’s seeing in the United States compared to there.

This is a kind of a raw show about what’s happening in this country. But then it pivots to spirituality. And you got to stay with it because this is a perfect show of how it shows how all of my topics in my program actually make sense. How does geopolitics, how does hardcore finance work with thrive? Well, this show kind of shows you why it works with this because we go from hardcore law firm justice system to the collapse of the Soviet Union to spirituality, which you had to find in order to make it right. You have to like, how do you build yourself up from the, the such difficult traumatic situations and then how do you thrive through that? Many people are struggling today with their jobs.

How do I even freaking go to work? I hate. I do. Right. A lot of people feel that way. But if you change your perspective, you, new opportunities form and you are happier, and the people around you are happier. And she has this. She talks about quantum physics. Now we get into science, quantum physics. And how she has determined or figured out, she’s thought really hard about how the science behind our existence and how that ties into spirituality and how you use that to create a new paradigm and. And to fulfill your life and be happier.

So this journey takes. We even talk about my lawsuit. She brings it up and talking about how she read about my lawsuit and kind of gives me a pat on the back and I’m kind of laughing. Yeah. In the context of how corrupt everything is. But you have to take these people on. If you don’t, they can do what they did to me, to anyone. So if you haven’t heard in detail about my lawsuit, you want to listen to that part a little bit. It’s simple. I really feel it’s important that these kind of lawsuits ongoing go on.

Otherwise we’re screwed. I mean, we are screwed as a country if we aren’t pushing back against some of the craziness that is going on right now. And we talk about that too. Like, how are all these big tech corporations started by government? Most of them are. That are dominating the top market cap, Started by DARPA and other aspects of the government. And then now they’re dominating. If that isn’t the definition of fascism, I don’t know what is. Right. It’s. And are they really independent now? They were started and funded by our government. Now they’re running everything.

I mean, what’s going on? And we talk a little bit about that. But if you are interested in getting a copy of her book, it is below in the show notes. It’s also available on Amazon in any place that good books are sold. And before we get into that, I want to talk to you about sloop. I’ve been talking about this exercise mimicker. It’s not really a peptide. It’s a small compound. But all these things are just kind of grouped into peptides. And so you call them peptides. It’s not. It’s a small compound, but it’s an exercise.

Mimicker Literally mimics the chemicals that you’re producing when you’re exercising. And so it helps with endurance and it helps with burning fat. In mice trials, the obese mice lost 12% of their body fat in 30 days. If you are interested in trying it, I’ll have the link below. You can use the coupon code Sarah to save 15%. I use it as part of my weight loss protocol that I’ve been on. It’s. I’ve been using it for a couple years. I feel, and I honestly feel like I’ve been, I’m in my 30s, my body does. I have really turned back the years on my body.

I don’t. I want to be humble here, but everybody who knows me is like, wow, what the heck are you doing? And most people are joining in and copying it because they see how well it’s worked for me. So if you are interested, I’ll have the link below for Sloop. Use coupon code Sarah and also have a link to my ultimate peptide guide for weight loss and muscle preservation. It shows you the protocols that I used. And since then I’m learning more and more about the studies that are coming out and what these things do. They’re better than what I thought back then.

Sloop is, is using the same site that the endocrine disruptors are using. And so we’re thinking in early studies that it can really help with endocrine disruptor problems. That’s what the early studies are showing and that’s what some of the early results. That’s what Dr. Diane Kayser said when she was on my show and we went all through that, that I didn’t even talk about when I first learned about it. This is what we’re learning. There’s so the side effect, the side benefits are maybe better than the original benefits. And that’s what’s so cool about this whole area of study.

So again, the links will be below. Use coupon code Sarah to save 15%. And let’s get into this incredibly interesting conversation I have with Anastasia Feinberg. Hi, Anastasia, welcome to the program. Hi. Thank you for having me. Boy, do you have an interesting background. Okay, you’re an attorney and you do some pretty hardcore stuff, right? And you also have a spiritual background and making sense out of what the world is today. You died and you came back. Tell us a little bit about your background and then we’re going to get into your experience. Yeah. So I am an attorney, as you rightfully said, and I’m also a spiritual expert, explorer, slash teacher of sorts at this point.

And that’s what prompted the book. So I’m somebody who’s trying to bridge the gap between, you know, modern day practical living as a business owner, attorney, mom, the different identities that I’ve had over this lifetime and spiritual awakening, what it’s like to be present the non dual wisdom and how to actually make that all make sense to somebody who can’t just escape practical responsibility and go live in a temple in the Himalayas and stay peaceful. Well, you’ve had. Okay, so as a practicing attorney, you get to see hard things. Right? It’s a very concrete black and white dealing with crappy things.

And how do you reconcile? First of all. Okay, you have that, but tell us about your experience first so people get an idea like where you’re coming from. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in the former Soviet Union. So when I was about three years old, the former Soviet Union, which was all one big country at that point, collapsed in 1991 and caused it to become 20 different countries overnight. So that in and of itself was very traumatic for my family. So I grew up in the 90s. And again, hold on one second. You were three when that happens, do you remember it clearly as a three year old? I remember growing up in that post Soviet country of Kazakhstan, which was.

We didn’t immigrate until I was 17 or so. So. Okay. I grew up in the shambles of, you know, people that are. That changed. Their currency changed overnight, their official government language changed overnight. Their jobs were taken away from them overnight. Like they just woke up one day and everything shifted. And so that was where I grew up. And I just remember how we never had a feeling of like security or safety or any sort of predictability of any of any kind. So, huh. Were you poor? Well, I guess it depends on how you define that because I know comparative materially, were you poor versus I mean, I don’t.

Wealth isn’t necessarily just you have money. I mean you, you can have incredible wealth with a great family because you just have this wonderful family life and, and not have much money. And people can have a lot of money and have the. Just a soulless, poor family life. But I’m asking, do you have, did you have material wealth? Did you have everything you needed? No, nobody did. I think that’s why everybody struggled is because like my parents, they went to school to become engineers. And that was all Soviet degrees. And they were in their early TW, the 90s when the Soviet Union collapsed.

So all of those factories where they were employed as engineers were closed down and then privatized over the next few years. So everybody was out of a job for a very long time. So people were trying to. Like my dad, he was pretty entrepreneurial. He was trying to, you know, go and engage in some cross city commerce. And he would sell stuff. But again, nobody really had a stable job or a stable income. And my mom was a stay at home mom because again, her degree just got completely erased overnight. She couldn’t use it anymore. So my dad decided to just let her be a stay at home mom.

And then he tried to really make it work for us with different businesses. And again, this is what the you see in movies, the, you know, Russian mafia and how people were just taking stuff that used to be owned by the government and privatizing all of that. And whoever had the bigger gun won the fight. So all of that was going on. And I know I was little, but I just remember the constant like stress that not just us, but everybody that we knew lived under. Like people were just sad and depressed and very fearful at that time.

Was it just mob ruled? I mean it was really might makes right. And there was no, it was just chaos. Yeah, yeah. When my dad had his first business, that’s when the mob first showed up and told him, we’ll burn down your shop if you don’t pay us half of all of your profits. And they had to. And then you had to engage like another mob gang to like fight the other mob so that you don’t have to pay them more. But eventually you would have to pay somebody, either the corrupt government official or the mobile, for your business to even stay afloat.

So again, when I tell all of this to my kids, they’re like, oh, is this a movie that you watched? And I’m like, no, this was the reality of what we had to deal with when I was little. That’s what you’re. When you hear things that are happening in this country, it doesn’t seem far fetched. I think a lot of people think that we’re immune from that, that we will somehow escape that kind of environment. Do you see the United States kind of going in that direction? I think that. And again, I have really high hopes for like the new generation that’s now growing up because looking at like my kids and my clients kids, I just hope that there’s going to be a significant shift in the United States in the next 10, 20 years.

Because if, if the shift doesn’t happen, it’s all about negligence. Like nobody just gives a shit anymore. I’m sorry to say that, but I’m seeing this in the United States now more than ever. Like, it’s all about shifting responsibility and not taking accountability and finding somebody else to blame. That’s why we’re so divided. And I’m like, this is how the collapse usually starts. Like, people need to start taking accountability and they start to have, they need to start having dialogue that’s not based on hate. And until that happens, unfortunately, yeah, I feel like we’re at a risk of something really bad happening, but I have high hopes that hopefully it won’t.

Well, the people who are taking that risk to try to make a difference and who are doing good things and are stepping up are the ones who are just getting cremated right now. I mean, I, you know, I, I’ve experienced that. And the people who are putting their neck on the line. Is that what happened pre Soviet Union as well? Pre collapse? Is that the, the good people were the ones who were vil. Yeah, I think that a lot of people that had good interest at heart, they were not just heard and it was all about, you know, the personal benefit.

The personal benefit of the few corrupt politicians that it would benefit them to collapse the country over, you know, the greater good. And unfortunately, again, I don’t want to get into all of the conspiracy theories that I kind of tend to believe in some of them, but that’s. It kind of goes hand in hand with what’s going on. If you really look at, you know, the few people that really have the true power to control the masses and make a change. Well, do you think, I mean, with the Soviet Union, when it collapsed, did they want it to collapse because they could benefit? I mean, the collapse, Soviet Union had a lot of issues, right? I mean it was, it was not functioning.

Right. But instead of, I mean, did they, did you think the collapse needed to happen for. Because Russia is doing pretty good now, right? We look at Russia compared to a lot of places, it is actually doing good. I don’t know if the other countries are. Maybe you don’t agree with that, but do you think the collapse needed to happen to clean up the Soviet Union? Or do you think they wanted it to collapse because that was where they could grab the chaos is where they could grab their wealth. Or both. I mean, both, A little bit of both.

And I think, you know, you say Russia’s doing good, it’s probably just like we’re back to the Cold War days of like the information that we’re getting is not really what’s going on there. They maybe want to all of it to look good on paper, but if you, you know, talk to the people that are living there in the day to day, they wouldn’t say that it’s Very good. Really. Do they think it’s worse than it used to be? Because when you look at the debt that Russia’s carrying, it’s not anywhere near as bad as the United States and other places.

And they’re not arresting people for social media posts and things. Maybe they can’t even post. Maybe that’s why they are. Their, their propaganda is even worse than here. Like you can’t they like tap people’s phones and there’s stuff that goes on with people that live in modern day Russia and certain things that they cannot say, not just on social media, but even to their friends and family on the phone. So it’s not what we think it is. But again, back to the point of was it necessary for it to collapse? I would say probably yes, because to have this Centralized government over 20 countries is just meant to be dysfunctional.

And that’s the issue with socialism then turning into dictatorships of sorts. But again, since the, the collapse they haven’t really overcome any of that. And it’s still very much like centralized control and one kind of point of view that everybody has to agree with and if they don’t, then they get gagged. And is it pretty much whoever has the most power is who you have to agree with. It doesn’t matter. And they’re going to take you out unless you agree with that. Now I think the United States is moving in that direction and I would agree with you.

It’s just, it’s really sad to see it because again with like the, all of the post Soviet countries, take Kazakhstan for example, they’ve had the same president since the collapse. Like I think it changed once. It’s been 30 plus years. The same president. Dictatorship. It’s a dictatorship. On paper they’re a democracy. But then, you know, they repealed that constitutional provision just like they did in Russia to allow themselves to be reelected. And then when finally people were like, well, he’s aging out, his been president for 30 years, he put his son in charge or son in law or oh yeah, some other family member.

I mean royalty, you’re, you’re essentially the king at that point if your son takes over. So okay, so you, your family moved when you were 17. How much of a, of a culture shock was it? What year was it that you moved here? Oh goodness, it was 2005. So I graduated what you would call like the equivalent of high school back home. So I was 17. My sister’s only a year and a half older than me. So my parents won the green card lottery and so we ended up like having six months to pack and make the move.

So that’s what I talk about as like one of the deaths that I experienced is literally kind of starting your life from scratch in a new country once again. I mean, my poor parents had to go through that when the Soviet Union collapsed and they were so starting over in the new post Soviet era. But then they had to go through all of that one more time when we immigrated in 2005 and ended up in Seattle. But the culture shock, everything, it’s again like you basically start your life from the beginning. You learn a new language, you learn the new culture, new educational system, new political system, you have no friends, no family, and you kind of build your life from scratch.

And that’s an incredible thing. Most people have not gone through that where you just, you lose everything and even the language, you can’t communicate with people and you have to learn a new language. As a 17 year old, that’s a pretty big hurdle to come over. I mean, if you would have done it when you were 10, it would have been a lot easier than when you’re 17. Yeah. And my parents were 40 plus, so for them it was even, it was even worse. So, yeah, they had to get jobs as like cleaning people’s homes and cleaning roofs and because they were trained engineers, I mean, my dad is the smartest person I know, but because he didn’t speak English, it was really hard for him to get a job or go to school to actually earn a degree.

So they had to make do with whatever, you know, came their way and clean people’s homes and deliver newspapers and pizzas and stuff. But again, we were all doing it for that pursuit of the American dream for my sister and I. And you know, I ended up going to law school and I ended up doing really well for myself. And that’s why they moved here, is to give you that opportunity and you, you took advantage of it. And now are they doing okay now? Yeah, they’re great. They’re. They moved to Colorado with me when I ended up in Denver, so we were in Seattle at first and then they ended up moving when I had my third K.

And they’re not retired yet, but they’re doing well and I try to take care of them. They’re probably so proud. They’re probably so proud. I know how proud I am of my kids, so, I mean, they must be so proud of you and your sister. Yeah, yeah, it’s been a challenge. But again, I’m grateful to them for giving us the Chance of, you know, leaving everything behind. Because even when you know that the change is meant to happen and it’s going to be better for you, it’s still very scary to just pack up and leave your country and go somewhere else, you know, 13 hours away and then end up rebuilding your life when you’re 40 something years old.

So for them it was crazy hard, but they still did it and they took the risk and it benefited all of us. Well, it’s good that you see it that way. I mean I would think that some I. Being 17 and having it happen at that age is an incredibly hard age. At least when you’re 40s you can rationalize it. When you’re 17 you don’t have the emotional ability to. Maybe you were more mature. I think a lot of us kids couldn’t rationalize it. They’d struggle even more. But sounds like you didn’t. I. That’s an incredible story.

But you’re seeing, you’re seeing parallels in the United States to what was happening there. And that scares me. I feel it here. Right. Everybody I know feels it’s really different here than it was when I was growing up and that, you know, there’s a fascist government, fascist technology takeover that didn’t exist in any country in the world. Right. But you’re seeing it here like it’s, it’s every large company almost was all these large technology companies were really created by the government, by DARPA and different agencies that were seeded and created by them. And now they’re the ones dominating the entire technology landscape and the top of the market caps.

Not, not everyone was DARPA or government created, but most of them were. I, I just wonder, you know, how much more fascist could that be. It’s mind blowing. I mean everything when you shift to centralized control of things like technology and AI and you know, industry and all of that, that’s where the scary things happen because again then there’s no diversity of opinion, there is no diversity of thought. Everything is centrally controlled and that’s how we end up with the disaster so well, it’s centrally controlled without transparency and it also, they have a hell of a lot more power than they ever had because these, this, they can control the information that billions of people can see that they, the Stasi, the old Soviet Union would drool to have this kind of control that these guys have now and they’re building it themselves.

I’m sure that Russia is and stuff too, but in China is, but this is, this kind of control has never existed in our Mind in this cycle of humanity, depending on what you believe, it’s just never, never seen anything like. Is scary. Yeah. The only hope I have is that it shifts at some point, but again, it has to be. I know. I looked up your lawsuit and everything that you stand for and all of that, and that’s admirable. I mean, fighting the big guys is admirable. Admirable. Pat me on the bed. Nice job. I mean, I hope it gets somewhere.

Right. Well, I mean, what they did, I mean, it got so obnoxious. Where all of a sudden, you know, there’s one thing about lying in federal court in the ninth circuit and then admitting to it in, you know, the Senate committees on your top law firm, on le legal paper, at admitting to being coerced by the federal government, which essentially means you lied in district. Federal district court, which caused our case to lose. It’s like, what the hell? That should be overturned immediately. But beyond that, then they went as far as not letting. Like in my case, not letting my channel up, Having fake channels that were monetized while none of my stuff was up there, ignoring all my requests to have those taken down, ignoring all the formal processes, ignoring my attorney that sent two letters.

And the next thing you know, I’m on the front page of Google search as a porn star and defamation, all sorts of crap. Oh, yeah, it was like all this porn crap was up there with my name. And I asked Google, Gemini, how in the world could this happen? When they said that Google Safe space research failed. It should never have failed. The only way it could have failed is if they disabled it, because they. Anything with porn would have been automatically stripped out. It’s not that complicated. And it wasn’t. So that was something that happened internally.

The only way, I mean, for that to be where I could get full justice is for that to be acknowledged in court. And that’ll be hard because nobody gets that. You know, Gemini got it. I get it. You know, people who are. Their entire engineering team gets it. I don’t know if the courts get it. And it. That’s how bad it is. And if they can do that to me, they can do that to anybody at any time. Any. If the courts don’t push back, if we don’t have law and order in this country where you can’t defame somebody.

And this isn’t just defamatory. I mean, this is antitrust. People can’t make money. When you’re taking somebody and you’re defaming them all over the place, suppressing Them putting up demeaning crap, what does that do to their reputation and ability to earn a living? Right. If you can do that to me with immunity, you can do that to anybody. Yeah. And, and that, that’s the reason why I don’t litigate, that’s the reason why I went into estate planning is because, you know, when I initially moved to the United States and I wanted to go to law school, I had these like rose colored glasses on about the American justice system and the democracy because again, the, the chaos that I grew up with, like we movies and we were like, this is the true democracy.

This is true justice. This is where, you know, people actually get heard. But then again, I went to law school and I really, I did want to litigate and I am right now stuck in a litigation with my former landlord. And it’s just been, everybody’s negligent and nobody wants to be held accountable. And the entire litigation system is built on who runs out of money first or like, how much money are you willing to throw at this thing to go away. It’s not about justice at all. I have not seen a litigation case that ends up being actually fair in a very long time.

It all gets settled out by whoever has more money. People assume the financial system is safe, but then banks fail, governments freeze assets, inflation quietly steals purchasing power, and then many people realize they don’t actually own what they thought they own. Physical precious metals aren’t about getting rich. They’re about reducing dependence on systems you do not control. That’s why I work with Miles Franklin to help investors protect and diversify their wealth with gold and silver and other precious metals. They have a reputation of trust, they are transparent, they help people, they never scam you, and they treat you like a sophisticated buyer.

If you, if you want to learn more or if you want a copy of their private price list which is not publicly available, go to sarah westel.com Miles Franklin. Fill out that form today and start learning how to protect your wealth with assets you actually own that can’t be taken away from a company you can trust. Well, or in this case, can Lawfare help it where they have bad pr? So the media needs to help. If you guys care at all, you should be covering this. The media needs to cover this kind of stuff because the only thing that pushes back right now that can go against the kind of money that’s involved is Lawfare.

Like it hurts their reputation for people to know that they’re doing stuff like this right, otherwise they can just run over like you were saying, how do you fight somebody who’s the second largest corporation in the world, a $4 trillion market cap company? I mean, you know, how can there be justice? You have to have courageous people in these court systems that say, wait a minute, this is wrong. We have to make this. This is wrong. You can’t do this to people unless that happens. Otherwise, these corporations can do anything to anybody at any time. Yeah, but.

But again, even with, I hate to say it, even with judges, but because the system is so slow and it’s bogged down with, you know, motion after motion and running out of time, running out of money, I feel like even judges at this point don’t care. Like, I just see so much negligence with the legal world right now is where, again, it’s just paper pushes. It’s like there’s another deadline, it’s off my desk. Let them have go their administrative court judge rule on that. Or like, nobody actually wants to take on accountability and make some good law.

It’s just, it’s getting bogged down by procedure and delays and who pays more. And that’s the sad part about, like, what I’m realizing with the legal system. And that’s why I will never litigate. I mean, I have the degree for it, but I chose not to litigate because I saw what litigation actually entails. It’s not about justice at all. Well, how much of it is that they make? They make agreements, backdoor agreements. Okay, this is what I’m thinking, that with these powerful companies, there’s backdoor agreements that they already know how these, most of these cases are going to land, and they just let them ride out because they talk about them and agree to them in backdoor meetings.

I can’t prove, but that’s how humans behave. So why would the justice system be any different? And again, it’s like going back to the conspiracy theories. You know, pre Covid, if you put a conspiracy theory in front of me, I would be like, oh, come on, this is like, crazy. This is so out there. This would never happen in the, in the United States, but then covet happened and it kind of like shifted everybody’s perspective at as to like, what government can actually do. Right? And then, wow. Wow. Yeah, this is crazy. This happened in 21st century United States.

Not just the United States, but like the entire world. Right? And you’re like, wow, there’s some truth to this conspiracy stuff. So I agree to backdoor agreements. I agree that there is. Even with the media, there’s predetermination with what they will and will not say. Oh, for sure there is. I mean, even in my podcast, you know, I had a meeting this morning, but this was because we have to, we’re going to do a health, you know, like a healthcare podcast. We had to have a meeting. What you can and cannot say because we got to protect ourselves from the legal world because you can’t talk about the benefits in certain ways because otherwise you’ll get shut down and attack.

Even if it’s true, you can’t say it. That kind of stuff, it’s like, come on. It’s very scary. I feel like again, like the freedom of speech and the American justice system is suffering greatly these days. So my way out of all of this is to somehow bring some spiritual truth and resolution into this. Because if you get too carried away into that, then it just becomes a nightmare and nobody wants to live in that. Well, you kind of get to the point where it’s learned helplessness, right? Learned helplessness is one of the worst states you can possibly be in.

You don’t want to get to the point where you feel helpless. You have to feel like you have free agency, otherwise you just shut down and, and we can’t, we can’t do that. We can’t allow ourselves to do that. And I think that’s where you’re entering. You’re saying, no, we have some free agency. And this is how I’m choosing to do, to look at it. And again, if you bring the spiritual aspect into it, this is the stuff that I talk about in my book is just shifting your perspective as to how you look at things.

Right? So it’s not necessarily just giving up and walking away and being the learned helplessness. It’s more of like shifting your perspective as to the non dual approach of things and how, you know, everything is made up of the same energy and everything flows in the same way. And really kind of working with that field and not let yourself get carried away with emotion and worry and stress and fear. So it’s like shifting that perspective back to the non dual reality of what we are. Okay, so let’s go into that a little bit. What do you mean by non dual reality of what we are? So some people call it God, some people call it the quantum field.

It really depends on again, the perspective. And I learned it all because again with being an attorney, being that very rational, logical person, religion doesn’t cut it for me. A lot of the spiritual traditions don’t really cut it for me because it’s. It has to logically make sense. So it’s a very like rational approach to how do you actually look at reality with your own five senses without somebody telling you stories or making you believe certain things that you can’t experience in your own perception and looking at that with your own five sensing and really understanding what reality is like.

So it is really all non dual. One field of quantum potential is what we truly are. Also when you’re saying non dual, it’s. It’s not a negative or positive, it’s A1 energy. But don’t you think there’s more negative energy and positive energy, different types of frequencies? There are. All of that exists again, but it all originates from the same source. And if you look at any religious tradition or spiritual tradition, they all kind of point you towards the same thing is that we’re all one and the Source is all one. And then out of that oneness comes different manifestations of physical forms and thoughts and emotions and whatever.

And then it gets labeled as positive, negative or anything else. But it all originates at the same source. Well, do you think that if it originates at the same source, do you think that some people get the negative and other people get the positive? And you know, like just if it’s all coming out and there’s good and bad, there’s all, there’s. I don’t say good and bad. There’s light and dark, or not even light and dark. There’s different frequencies, these different energies. And some energies get concentrated here, some get concentrated there. And that the energies that are concentrated can be a higher frequency or more good, if you will, more, you know, angelic and other ones can be more demonic and awful.

And it’s. Go ahead. Yeah, I was just agreeing with you, but keep going. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because. And then what is the point of all this? What is it? I like to not be part of anything that’s negative. I just, I want my entire world to be filled with angelic, high emotion, amazing energy. Because I feel good, it makes me feel great, it makes the. My kids do better, my family, my husband. Everybody does better when you’re like that. And so I like to surround myself with as much as humanly possible of that. But you have to deal with the other stuff.

And the other stuff is kind of seems like it’s taking over right now. It’s not letting. Again, a lot of this dualistic approach is what we live in as, you know, day to day people. We have us and them we have good or bad. We have, you know, people and kids and everybody that we have to take care of. But the, the non dual philosophy, again it’s gonna sound pretty hard to believe to most people or hard to grasp is that there is no you and others, it’s all, it’s all the same source. So once you shift your perspective, the resistance is going to go away and the field will self correct.

And the more people get to that understanding of removing the resistance, removing the fight, removing the fear, the negative emotions, they all exist. I agree with you there. The negative energies, all of that has a place just as the positive energy. Because you can’t know yourself without realizing that dual distinction that we all live in. But it’s about shifting beyond that and not letting yourself get carried away into one or the other. But like neutral observer of sorts is what I call it is what makes the reality kind of shift and go into a more positive harmonized way.

So a neutral observer would be non judgmental and, and just accepting. And that is a, a more. I consider that a lighter energy. Is that what you’re saying? It’s acceptance? Because again if you really dissect the reality, and I talk about this a lot in my book, we have an illusion of control, but control actually doesn’t exist. And so when we think we have a version of a reality, think should be right or just or whatever, we have different versions of realities that live up here in our ego centered mind. But in the true quantum field of potentialities, things will only unfold one way.

And so when your mental version of how they should unfold doesn’t coincide with things of how that actually unfolds, that’s where all of the resistance and negative emotions come. So acceptance is one way to put it, but it’s even, it’s stepping even beyond that acceptance. It’s more of just neutrality, observing it, letting things come and go and finding yourself as that awareness where all of that happens without labeling. And that is the real non dual wisdom is what it teaches that and again it kind of quantum physics nowadays kind of echoes exactly that, which is. Yeah, I have a, I have a hard time with some of that because this is where my pushback.

I can’t sit back and neutrally look at somebody who rapes and murders a child. Do you know what I’m saying? I, I don’t. How is that? I, I don’t. I think that that would be. It’s like nobody giving a crap. How, how do you know? That is a lot of. How do you make sense of that? Go ahead. So this is again from the Ego. And this is more of like, now I’m going to actually force myself to be accepting and I’m not going to react to somebody raping a child. I. No, your body will react in the way that is appropriate in the moment.

No one’s going to say that if you’re getting raped or killed that you should just give in and accept it. You will react in the moment and that will be a very natural response to that occurrence. So it’s not to be confused with nihilism and just saying, well, I’m just going to be in a vegetative state and not react to anything. Your natural reaction will come and it, it can’t be denied. It will. It’s all part of this non. Dual thing that we are. It’s. And your natural intelligence and your body and the way your personality is built will react appropriately in a given moment.

It’s not about just giving up and giving in. Well, I would think that’s extremely out of balance, that activity and that your, your reaction would be to counteract that incredible out of balance situation. And you will. And again, most people will, unless they’re rapists themselves or something that’s just completely so out of balance that they are that manifestation. But for any normal person, if you’re being attacked or if you’re seeing an injustice, you’re not going to force yourself to accept that and not resist. Again, this is again taking the ego to yet another level of complete withdrawal.

And that’s not what I’m talking about at all. It’s about being in the moment, being present and reacting in the most natural way, which again is always going to come in the most correct way possible. When you’re reacting from the natural occurrence or the flow of energy versus overthinking things and reacting in a way that you think you should have reacted, that makes sense. Now, what kind of feedback are you getting on on this? Because you’re essentially saying, okay, this is quantum energy. This is the our. You’re looking at it from almost a scientific standpoint. This is what we are, you’re saying, and this is how the energy flows and how we can create balance in our world.

What kind of reaction are you getting from Christians and Buddhists and all sorts of other people? It varies. It’s a mixed reaction for a lot of people that live from the ego, which I was like that if you told me all of this five, seven years ago, I would be resisting. There was a lot of pushback, There were a lot of questions, there was a lot of denial. Or non acceptance. A lot of people that believe a certain, you know, if it’s Christianity or Islam, they start fighting. And again, but all of that is semantics to me.

It’s like, okay, we can engage in rhetoric forever. It doesn’t, it’s not going to make any of this better for you as the individual or as this pure God energy. What I am offering is okay. Instead of arguing, actually take a step back and just observe. Just engage in this practice of being a neutral observer. Engage in the practice of just using your own five senses to look at reality. Do not go and read about religion. Just be, just be present, just be what you are. What is it when you say I am without adding labels to it? I am a Christian, I am a woman, I am a mother, I am an attorney.

What happens when you peel all of those layers back and you just say I am. So I’m more of like, I can point you to the direction of self exploration but I can’t get you there. And all of the rhetoric and the argument only gets you more away from that. But if you actually stay here in the present moment without the constant mental chatter and arguments, that’s what you’re going to discover in your own practical experience without having to believe me or anybody else who tells you what to believe. A quick break to share with you this wonderful product called Masterpiece.

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You can get your hair test to see what you are before and what you are after. You use this for a few months. They stand behind what they’re doing with tests, studies and real results. And look for the link below where you can buy Masterpiece yourself. It’ll provide you a discount. Or you can go to sarah westall.com under shop. Yeah, that. And that’s the one thing is the people like almost angrily with anger telling you what you should believe. And when you don’t believe what they believe, they’re angry about it and then they act out and they go against everything they claim they believe.

And that is what again, the ego is. It takes over. And again, the religion is twisted. It misrepresents the actual message of what Jesus and Buddha and Muhammad, they all had the same message. But again, it gets twisted up by the different interpretation of it. Because for us, again, people that live from the concept of duality, from us versus them, somebody has to have the right religion, somebody has to have the right story. And if your story doesn’t align with my story, then all of a sudden you’re bad and I’m good and I’m going to carry that with the sense of pride that somehow I’m better than you.

But again, if you take one giant microscope and if you just shine that onto us as humanity, we’re all one energy, you and I are the same cells. Those cells don’t carry beliefs, they just are. And if you look at that as the pure source of what you are, all of that fluff kind of falls away and you arrive at a very neutral and harmonious place where judgment doesn’t exist. I mean, it has its place in your day to day life, but it’s not something that’s going to rattle you or make you spin out into a version of reality where you don’t want to be.

Well, one thing I always say about Christianity and the message of Jesus is that they use Christianity, certain scriptures to, to have an argument for doing something awful. Right. They’ll take a time. Instead of looking at the entire picture, what is the main point of this? What is the big picture? And if you look at the big picture and say, okay, the majority of what they’re, what, the message, the big idea, what is the big idea? And if your little thing, your little scripture, that, that fits, it’s completely, usually it’s out of context too. They take scripture out of context to justify slavery.

That’s what they did for hundreds of years. They take a scripture out of context to justify treating women like, you know, subordinate or whatever they’re doing. And it’s like, wait a minute, what is the big picture here? And if you’re missing the, if you’re out of the big picture, you can’t mass slaughter million or thousands of people and claim that, that, that’s justified. When you look at the big picture, if you don’t zoom out, you’re just looking at one scripture out of context, then you miss the entire point. And that’s where I’m at with a lot of this.

Yeah. And that’s how all religion operates. I mean, if just outside of Christianity? How many denominations of Christianity are there? And who gets to say which one is right and which one is wrong? It’s like whoever you people use it in, the most convenient way for them to control a certain, you know, number of population and wage war against the ones that don’t agree with you. So a hundred percent, all of that is just rhetoric that gets twisted to conquer and divide in the name of the ego or the devil or whatever you want to call it.

But again, the whole point of any religion, any spiritual tradition is we are pure love, pure harmony. Not divided from birth, not divided from the origin. And the whole message of love your neighbor, the way you love yourself points directly to that non dual wisdom. But people misinterpret that. Well, they, yeah, they do misinterpret it. Anything that goes against what they believe is written in some, in the scripture or religion. They think that it’s evil, it’s coming from an evil source. And that in and of itself is against the big idea, right? I like the big idea.

You know, why are you fighting so hard the fighting so hard against someone who just doesn’t think. I think the struggle. I had a mentor a long time ago and he said something really profound to me. He said, sarah, the most important thing is the journey, the struggle to learn the truth. Not necessarily what the truth is, but the struggle to learn it. Because in that journey is where you’ll learn the deep wisdom and the truth. And if you’re not struggling to learn what that truth is and all you’ve done is accepted something else that was told to you, then you don’t really know, then you didn’t do the work.

You didn’t do the work. You’re not, you don’t really understand. And I thought that was. He told me that when I was really young. And I thought that stayed with me my entire life. Because I think that is the essence of what we’re supposed to do. The struggle. Yeah, and I agree. It’s like finding your way back to that pure source of light and love that you are. All of that always come through a struggle because if everybody could be loving and peaceful and harmonious, then nobody would ever need spirituality or finding the truth or, you know, exploring religions or trying to make the world a better place.

Everything would already be great for everybody. So the whole point of the human existence is going through the struggle to find your way back to that truth. But again, and along the way, so many people get lost and it all has its place. But people tend to have a Very narrow idea or interpretation of whatever they think religious is teaching, religion is teaching them or any other, any other spiritual tradition. And people get so carried away into their own version of how things should be that again, the whole bigger picture of it gets lost profoundly, sadly.

You had two, you said you had another death experience that you consider dying. What is that? That’s the ego death. Ego death is the beginning of, you know, just a different. So I, I talk about the immigration being my first death and then my painful divorce with three little babies as my second death and kind of having to start a. Over and build a farm and be a mom and be present and struggling with all of that. And then the, the eventually I just remember I, I did everything, I did every, I explored every religion, I explored every spirituality therapy I explored even, you know, plant medicines and retreats, like all of it just to make the pain go away, just to be like, okay, how do we as humans exist without the constant cycle of, of pain and pleasure and having to rebuild yourself from scratch whenever you go through something traumatic? And so the ultimate death is the ego death is when you, you have to give up all of those stories and stop associating yourself with that version of your personality that used to be the mom or the attorney or the immigrant or the divorced woman.

And that is the true ego death is lack of labels, lack of associations. And your new life or rebirth of sorts starts from there because you completely shift your perspective as to how you show up to your day to day practical responsibility. Again, it doesn’t negate any of that. You don’t just sit in a vegetative state and you don’t react. Life unfolds and you naturally react, but you react in a harmonious way and not from a way of this narrow perception of the ego and my version of reality. Do you think that you found that you can function in your job and your work, running your business, doing your everything you need to do better? When you start so much better, there’s no worry, there’s no stress.

I mean, that comes and goes. But it’s like, you know, the cloud when, when the sky is bright and blue, it remains the sky. And then the clouds come and it storms and the clouds go away and the sky is blue again. Doesn’t mean that the sky is going to start like blaming itself for the clouds or the storm that just happened or having stories about how it shouldn’t have stormed over here and really should have stormed over there. So it’s more about like the natural alignment of how things Unfold, if you just let them be and showing up and being present for all of that without creating unnecessary resistance from overthinking, worrying, stressing, anxiety and all of that.

And reality does shift. In my own personal experiences, things miraculously shifted at the last moment to make it more beneficial for Anastasia. When your perspective changes. Well, and I think people are going through that now. People are really going through that. Right. And so. And they’re struggling in their jobs. They’re afraid to quit their jobs. A lot of people. And. But if this perspective can help you get. I think when you change your perspective, new opportunities unfold as well. It’s interesting. Yeah. Because again, going. If you’re. If you’re looking at your job as a sort of.

As a source of stress, you know, if you just. Just stay in your job when you’re actually in it, like being present and not thinking about, what am I going to have for dinner? I have to go pick up my kids, I have to apply for another job. Just being in the moment, using your working intelligence to react to the situation in the most natural way, you will see that again, opportunities will show up, people will come into your field that will help you make the change. But if you are. Are so caught up into the mental chatter of how stressed you are and how things should go, you will never escape that cycle because that energy will feed itself and it’ll just keep spinning out into that negative direction.

Well, this is a fascinating conversation. Okay. Where can people get a copy of your book on Amazon? It’s called How I died at age 36 but will live Forever. That’s awesome. Okay, thank you so much for joining. What? We went from kind of like a hardcore topic of the justice system all the way to, you know, spirituality to then how do you function in life and maintain and do your job? Wonderful. If this is an example of how all these different areas connect, I don’t know what else is. It kind of brings it all together. So thank you so much for joining the program.

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. Very unusual discussion, but I think it all worked in a very wonderful way. It did. I mean, that’s why my show, this was beautiful. The pattern of how we went. Because I do a lot of, like, different topics like this, and people are like, what the hell? How can. Well, it’s because it all connects, guys. And if this wasn’t an example of how it all connects, I don’t know what else is. I know. Yeah, this is great. Thank you so. Thank you so much. And are you with Skyhorse.

I can’t remember what part publisher you was. Somebody sent me an email. Who was the. It was Kim. Kim Barron with. Okay. Yes, Media relations. Yeah. Kim Baron. I’ve had her. I’ve had multiple people over the years. I’ve had multiple people. So. Okay, well thank you so much for joining the program. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. It was great. And then. And then if you could share it. I don’t know if you have much social media or whatever, but when it goes live, are you on X? I am on Instagram, Facebook and then some YouTube and then my website has the free meditation for people to try out if they want to explore the non dual nature of what they are.

Okay, well if you could share it wherever it gets posted, there’ll be different things posted and if you could share what you could and we’ll get you the link. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. Sa.
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