Because Voluntary Extermination is a Thing: Israel-Gaza w/ Award Winning Journalist James Robins

➡ The text discusses the ongoing conflict in Gaza, highlighting the high number of civilian casualties, particularly women and children. It also promotes a collagen peptide product for health benefits and introduces an interview with investigative journalist James Robbins, who has written a book on the Gaza situation. The text also mentions a product for lengthening telomeres for better health as we age. Lastly, it delves into the author’s motivation for writing the book, which includes outrage, sympathy, and a desire to cut through disinformation about the conflict.
➡ The text discusses the events of October 7th, where Israeli intelligence had prior knowledge of a planned attack by Hamas but did not act on it due to internal political struggles. The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) later used a doctrine to prevent hostages from crossing back into Gaza, leading to potential casualties among their own people. The text also questions whether the IDF’s lack of immediate organized response was due to incompetence or a deliberate decision. The following day, the IDF launched an organized attack on Gaza, with controversial statements made about the innocence of civilians.
➡ The Israeli military has been accused of targeting civilians in Gaza, including children, and systematically destroying infrastructure like housing, electricity grids, and hospitals. This has led to a severe humanitarian crisis, with many people missing or dead, and others forced into conditions akin to torture. The Israeli government is allegedly planning to concentrate the remaining population in the ruins of Rafah, imposing harsh conditions and offering only a “voluntary” emigration option. The actual death toll is uncertain, with estimates ranging from 60,000 to possibly over 500,000.
➡ The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, created by Israelis, has built four fortified aid centers in Gaza where Palestinians risk being shot while queuing for the only food they’re allowed. This has resulted in hundreds of deaths and thousands of injuries. Soldiers are allowed to fire into crowds due to orders from their commanders. The situation in Gaza may be considered genocide, with Israel potentially facing charges at the International Court of Justice.
➡ The text discusses the ongoing conflict involving Hamas and Israel, questioning why the war continues despite Hamas’ willingness to surrender power for a ceasefire. It criticizes the role of the United States in supporting Israel, suggesting that this support enables the continuation of the conflict. The text also highlights the importance of protest and resistance against perceived injustices, and criticizes laws that equate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. It ends by warning of the long-term consequences of such conflicts on the moral fabric of society.
➡ The text discusses the ongoing conflict and violence, likely referring to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. It criticizes the support for violence and highlights the irony of victims becoming perpetrators. The text also mentions the need for a peaceful resolution, possibly through negotiation, and criticizes the cyclical nature of violence. It ends with the promotion of a book by the speaker.

Sam Sa they repeat this claim that there are no uninvolved civilians and they act as an army, as a military force, as an occupying force, as though that this was the case. Now, even if the children were indoctrinated to believe that, you know, Hamas were going to be their saviors or that all Jews need to be killed or whatever hideous thing you like, that wouldn’t justify either beforehand or retroactively the murder of those children or the murder of any non combatant at all. And yet I think it’s something like 2/3 of all victims since October 7th in Gaza have been women, have been children.

Just a quick break from the program to share with you this amazing collagen peptide, something that I think everybody over 50 really should be using. As you age you lose collagen. And if you want to maintain strong bones and, and healthy hair and glowing skin, you need to be taking collagen. It’s something that I take every single day. And this is an amazing brand from Native Path. They only use the best collagen and they give you type 1 and type 3. You should read about it. I have the link below@getnativepath.com Sarah I have a doctor of physical therapy who put seven reasons together of why you should be doing this every single day.

Go to getnativepath.com Sarah and you can save 45%. Again, that’s getnativepath.com Sarah and YOU can save 45% and also get free shipping. And don’t wait because this is really something that all of us need every single day to stay healthy. Welcome to business Game changers. I’m Sarah Westall. I have James Robbins coming to the program. He’s an investigative journalist and he’s wrote a deep investigative book on Gaza with lots of sources and he won’t publish something that he doesn’t believe has been proven with multiple sources and legitimate multiple sources. I push back throughout this interview and ask many questions.

He, he pushed back pretty hard on certain things. If he didn’t think that the sources were there to legitimize anything that I was saying, which I appreciate. I just want the truth. I don’t care. People who followed me know that I can get into some combative conversations with people and still really like the people I’m talking to, I, I don’t care. I think it’s important that we have these discussions. I, I, you’ll see at the beginning we, we kind of work through some issues here on trying to get to the truth. Least this is a good Conversation is what I’m going to say.

And I think that you will, everybody will learn and grow from this. We have some pretty deep questions that are asked that everybody should be talking about and discussing. When it comes to, you know, crimes against humanity and why we’re doing the things that we’re doing. It’s, you know, the, the way the world works is that you aren’t going to. The energy. I always think of it as energy. If you’re committing crimes, it will come back on you, especially if the majority of the world sees it as such. You don’t get away with doing things that most people see as wrong.

It will somehow come back to haunt you and you’ll see it in all sorts of ways. And, you know, power doesn’t always equal, you know, power and might doesn’t make things right. And that’s. It just doesn’t. You end up suffering other consequences. And so we’re going to talk about what’s going on in Gaza and what the average person should do. I mean, I just want it to end. I want the suffering of people to end. So if you want to purchase this book, it’s called Blowing Up Everything Is Beautiful, Israel’s Extermination of Gaza. It’s going to be a hard one to read, but you’ll get a lot of detailed information there if you want to purchase it.

I’ll have a link below where you can find his book. Okay, before I get into that, I want to talk to you about Televital. I have a promotion going on now and it’s just running for a week where you can try this for 39. It is 200 times more potent or more effective at lengthening your telomere than any kind of herbaceutical is what it’s called. I just had Bill Andrews on and he was talking about the difference between a pharmaceutical and something that is comes out of nature. And the pharmaceutical that he has, which I have, is called Defy Time, that is a lot more expensive, but it is more effective.

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So try it. It’s only 39. The link is below. Okay, let’s get into this really good and sobering conversation with James Robbins. Hi, James. Welcome to the program. Kind of you to have me. You’ve been doing some deep investigative work into Gaza, what’s going on in that region. You’ve done work, you wrote a book on it, and then you’ve done, you know, you haven’t stopped. You’re an investigator, so you’re going to be looking at it ongoing. So we’re going to talk about what you’ve looked at from many different angles. But before we get into this, people need to know who you are.

Can you give us a background on what your background is? Why did you get involved in the. This really heated area of the world? Sure. Well, I mean, writing this book was based on outrage, fury, disgust, pity, and a sort of frustration and a sympathy for people who feel frustrated that, you know, they might feel sympathy for the Palestinians and what Israel is doing to them. But, but, you know, this whole subject, the whole conflict lives under a shroud or a carapace of disinformation and propaganda and lies. Yeah. And the immediate reason for wanting to write the book was to, to cut through all of that.

And so for the, for the 20 months of, of this horrendous war, I’ve been covering it month by month for the New Republic magazine in the United States. And my angle on it was also came from the direction of international law, which is something that is being destroyed alongside every single building and every single life in the Gaza Strip. Well, there’s also an angle, you know, the Christian angle. I tell people that because there’s so many, I bring this up, there’s so many Christians that, that agree with this and are blinded by this whole conflict. And, you know, there’s a law angle.

There’s a political angle, there’s the ally angle, there’s the G, you know, the power struggle, the depopulation, there’s all topics. But then the propaganda gets in deep into the Christian world too. And I, I like to tell people that in order to look at this through that lens, you have to ignore 90% of what Jesus taught. And, you know, the propaganda is pretty thick in many directions. Extremely. And it’s tough to get away from it. And you can go into any silo that you want to and you can be told the things that you want to hear.

You have to be a little bit brave and you have to, you know, make a little foray outside of those silos sometimes. And, you know, is why it was so important for me to have a lot of footnotes or endnotes in the book. It’s a quite a short book and a quarter of the total length is sources, verified sources. I wanted to be very, very detailed about what I wrote and every factual claim that I made so that anybody can check it and anybody can verify what I’m saying and why I’m making the argument that I’m making.

Well, there’s been allegations that there’s genocide in Gaza. You know, I’ve covered in on my show many times that the operation on October 7th was, I mean, it looks like a false flag. I mean, they stayed stepped down for six, maybe eight hours. I keep forgetting if it’s six or eight and there’s military whistleblowers from Israel. There are so many people have come forward saying that this is, this smells of a false flag. And then they use that as the premise for doing this whole operation. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think we need to be really, really careful.

And again, going back to verifying facts, I don’t think that we can say that October 7th was a false flag. What we can say is that Israeli intelligence had a 40 page long document. It was called Jericho Wall. It was the Hamas planning document for October 7th. They had this in their possession several months before that date and they did nothing with it. Mostly out of sort of paralysis that had seized the Israeli state in that year because of an ongoing political struggle over the reforms that Benjamin Netanyahu’s government was trying to make to the judicial system in Israel.

What we can also say is, and it was admitted to by Yoav Gallant, who’s the former Defense minister, the man who has a warrant out for his arrest by the International Criminal Court, he admitted to the, to the fact that the IDF used what’s called the Hannibal Doctrine. So a doctrine that meant that the IDF wasn’t going to let any hostages pass back over the border into Gaza. We don’t know really any specifics about how many Israelis were killed by their own army, the army that was supposed to be defending them. But we can guess that it might.

It might be some. But I really have to stress that, you know, October 7th wasn’t a false flag. And. But what’s the difference between that Hamas doesn’t need an excuse. What is the difference between a false flag and Maybe you can articulate this, a false flag and allowing something to happen? Or I suppose there’s. There’s multiple things. It’s either they allowed it to happen and wanted to use this as a premise, or they were really incompetent. Perhaps they did, but we don’t know that yet. And so that’s why I hesitate for making that claim. It’s one of the two.

Yeah. But it could also be dysfunction. I mean, we could say that about 911 as well, that there was massive failures within the intelligence. Intelligence community in the United States before 9 11. Yeah, one or the other. It’s either they allowed it to happen, to use it as a premise, or they were really incompetent. Those are two different things. Those are two different things, we say. Intelligence failures. Failures to, you know, alert, you know, passing information from the intelligence agencies to the army in Israel. This didn’t happen. There was no analysis that was made of the documents that were in the intelligence department’s possession prior to October 7th.

But to say that it was deliberately ignored in order for a terrible massacre to take place on October 7 is far beyond what we have evidence to really say. No, no, no, I understand this. So it’s either that or it’s incompetence. But you don’t think an intelligence failure equals incompetence? Oh, it does. That’s what I’m saying. Yes. It’s one or the other is the bottom line with some of the whistleblowers from Israel that came out. These are Israelis coming out. So I’m just talking about Israeli whistleblowers. They were saying that for them to stand down for as long as they did was almost unfathomable because if a mouse ran past their Iron Dome, they would be alerted.

So how did all of these military men, or terrorists, as they call them, parachute in without them doing anything for hours? And how did they. I mean, go ahead, answer that first. Well, it wasn’t a case of, you know, these. These guys being a Sort of gang of a couple of dozen guys in a single car or in a single paraglider. I mean, these are disciplined guerrilla militants. Yeah, they knew what they were doing. They pierced the border by force with violence and explosives. Very targeted and unrelenting rocket barrage aimed at the southern cities in Israel.

And they went after both civilian targets and military targets as well. Outposts, police stations, barracks. But as, as well as the, the, the kibbutzes and of course, the Novum Music Festival. I don’t, I don’t know that we need to be entirely skeptical about the fact that it was in, within Hamas’s power to carry out these actions. But was it. This is what I’m trying to get to the. To, was it feasible, reasonable to assume or to think that it’s possible? I mean, it happened so that Israel would, for eight hours or six hours just not be able to react? Because according to Israel, whistleblowers, military whistleblowers, they were saying that just isn’t.

I mean, that seems unfathomable. Look, that’s not information that I’ve seen, so I, And I can’t take what you’re saying on trust. Okay. I don’t want to be combative here. I’m just asking. I’m just asking some questions here. Okay, so you, you don’t, you, you don’t think that’s a questionable thing, that they stood down for six or eight hours? That’s not something that I’ve read. What do you. What? No. Okay, so I gotta use the words differently. The stood down, not that they stood down, but they didn’t react for six to eight hours. That’s a fact.

There’s a lot of burning and destroyed cars on the roads of southern Israel heading towards Gaza that testify to the fact that the IDF were operational on that afternoon of October 7th. So I don’t know if that six to eight hours is entirely accurate. Oh, okay. So let’s, let’s unpack that a little bit because that’s important. So you were saying that possibly they were trying to combat them during that time period. Sure. I mean, there’s videos of Hamas gunmen getting into firefights not only with armed citizens of Israel, but also with the army as well, and attack helicopters flying and tanks moving around and all of these sorts of things.

There were sporadic and unorganized military operations being undertaken by the idf. Okay, so it wasn’t. So in that way, they didn’t ignore it. This is what I’m trying to get to the bottom of, because that’s the Common thread that is talked in the independent media is that they did nothing for like six to eight hours. And you’re saying that’s not true? They did ignore. They did. Maybe it wasn’t an organized pushback, but they did do something. I mean, sure, this is documented. I mean, as I say, they were sporadic and perhaps unorganized local, local detachments responding on their own to an aunt invasion by the brigades of Hamas.

But whether it was a top down order to stand down, you know, from the head of Southern Command to all of, all of the barracks and outposts around the Gaza Strip, for them to stand down and not respond as Hamas were taking hostages and killing civilians, I haven’t seen good evidence to suggest that’s the case. Okay, so I possibly used the wrong language when I said they stood down. So, but they didn’t do anything organized from a central standpoint. I mean, certainly they were organized within the day. Right? I mean, the morning after, I think it was the morning after the Defense minister, you have Gallant, is addressing his generals in a televised remarks saying we’re laying a total siege on Gaza.

No fuel, no food, no water, no medicine. We are fighting human animals and we’re acting accordingly. So even if there was unorganized resistance on the part of the IDF on that afternoon of October 7th, there was certainly organized resistance the morning after. Okay, that’s why it seems to me, it seems like it doesn’t make sense when I listen, I listen to a lot of military whistleblower people from Israel talking about saying that. And that’s why I’m asking, I don’t know the answers. I’m asking you, since you’ve done so much research, how did they possibly not be organized at that moment to react to this when that they have this Iron Dome? They claim that they’re constantly under threat.

This is their number one goal is to keep that threat from attacking them. And then when it did happen, they didn’t do anything. I mean, or it was sporadic and not organized. But regardless. Okay, so let’s move on to the next day where it was organized attack afterwards. Now are they, I mean, they claim that everyone. I was listening to a radio show where they were saying that there isn’t anyone innocent in Gaza. Essentially they said if there were 10 innocent people, we probably shouldn’t be doing this. And then the two radio hosts said there isn’t 10, even 10 people that are innocent because the children are taught to hate and to kill and that even the children are guilty.

I mean even six months old babies, I think that’s an extreme reaction, but that’s the kind of rhetoric that we hear in this country on national channels. Is that the kind of, of operation that we’re seeing over there? It’s even worse than you think. The person who first said there is no such thing as an uninvolved civilian was the President of the State of Israel, Isaac Herzog. He said it on October13, he was asked a question by a British reporter for the channel itn and he said it’s not true. This, this idea of there being civilians who are uninvolved now, no, uninvolved civilians has become a motto throughout the entirety of Israeli society, and especially in the army.

Every bit of testimony from any soldier who has come forward as a whistleblower from the IDF ranks who have served in Gaza have said, they repeat this claim that there are no uninvolved civilians and they act as an army, as a military force, as an occupying force, as though that this was the case. Now, even if the children were indoctrinated to believe that, you know, Hamas were going to be their saviors or that all Jews need to be killed or whatever hideous thing you like, that wouldn’t justify either beforehand or retroactively the murder of those children or the murder of any non combatant at all.

And yet I think it’s something like two thirds of all victims since October 7th in Gaza have been women, have been children. Well, women could be combatants too, but I can’t see in any way a child who’s less than 2 years old being a combatant in any kind of structure that you could possibly put together. So are they specifically targeting the infrastructure of Gaza to starve out the population and the average people? Yes, I don’t think we need to say that it’s a, it’s even an ongoing process. It’s a process that has already happened. The city of Rafah in the south of the Gaza Strip was a large city.

It was home to about 300,000 people. It’s gone, it’s vanished. It’s been razed to the ground. You can see the Mediterranean Sea from where the middle, the central center of Rafah used to be. The electricity grids, water, sanitation plants, hospitals, schools, universities, churches, mosques, museums have all been systematically demolished. Something like 90% of Gaza’s housing stock, from little bungalows all the way up to apartment complexes, have been systematically dynamited in controlled demolitions. They’ve been brought down. At the end of last year, the IDF was running out of plastic explosives to carry out these demolitions. And they had to use anti personnel mines in order to bring down these buildings.

And bulldozers as well, you know, alongside all of the bombs and the missiles and the artillery shells, the bulldozer is as much a weapon of this conflict as anything else. It’s a systematic attempt to deprive the population, the Palestinian population of Gaza, of the means of survival. And just in the last couple of days, we’ve seen the Defense Ministry confirm, the Israeli Defense Minister, Israel Katz, confirm that the plan at the moment is to concentrate the entirety of the population in the south on the ruins of Rafah, to keep them there with the only aid, the only food and medicine that is allowed in, and then to impose conditions on them that are essentially torture.

And then when some of them can’t take it anymore, when some Palestinians say, I don’t want to live like this, they will. The Israeli government will offer them a way out through what is called the Voluntary Emigration Bureau, which was a government agency that was started and I think March this year or May this year, and that is the way that the total depopulation of a Gaza Strip will be affected. I mean, if we go back to January of 2024, there was an enormous conference at the International Convention center in Jerusalem. It was a gathering of the entirety of the Israeli settler movement.

And at that conference there was a government minister who got up. His name was Shlomo Kahi is the communications minister. He got up there and he said, we need to impose voluntary immigration on the Palestinians of Gaza. And sort of everybody in the audience would have known what he meant by voluntary emigration. But then he went on to explain voluntary, and I quote, voluntary is a state that you impose on someone until they give their consent. Now, to me that sounds like torture. The Palestinians are being. Yeah, total coercion. They’re being offered either death or exile.

Yeah, it’s not voluntary. They, there, there is a means of doing that to people in general under different conditions. I’ve seen it in different situations where they act like it’s voluntary, but they give you no way out. Like if you actually want to survive in any kind of reasonable way, you have to do this. And then they claim after the fact that was voluntary and so they know what they’re doing. But there was a report that just came out a few weeks ago saying that there’s over 500,000 people missing in Gaza. And it came from an Israeli university professor and it was republished by dozens of outlets.

And I had a journalist and some people tell me that that was propaganda and that’s not true. And that university professor should be fired. When you hear stuff like that, you know, first of all is it true? And how can they still be saying it’s not true if it is just a short break to share with you an amazing peptide. This one is GHK cu. This is one of the best anti aging peptides on the market, period. As far as what they’re finding. This comes in a spray, a nasal spray. It comes in an injectable and why I like this so much, it’s is it also comes in a capsule form.

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And this was before the ceasefire at the beginning of this year said it might be 70,000 just dead from military action. So not those who have starved to death or have succumbed to illnesses like cancer that they don’t or are missing treatment for. What about the missing? The missing thing is a different thing. So the other Lancet study said it might be as high as 120,000. We simply don’t know how many missing people there are. Anything at the moment that is coming out is an estimate. The Gaza Health Ministry, which of course as we never fail to hear is run by Hamas, but whose numbers are accurate, didn’t start counting the missing until quite late in the conflict.

They just didn’t have the capacity to do so. So any estimates are very, very early and they’re very, very provisional. It’s difficult to think, looking at any footage coming out of Gaza, that those death tolls that we have in the moment are accurate. I think it’s much, much higher. We just can’t say how much higher they are. Could the 500,000 estimate be reasonably accurate? Or, I mean, could it be feasible? Or could that be misinformation? I mean, it’s coming from Israel. Professor in Israel, it’s possible. We, but we just don’t know. Okay. I mean, that, that’s one source and you know, basic journalistic practice says you need at least two sources for any claim that you make.

So unless something else comes out that arrives at that sort of number independently, we can’t take it on any more than faith, I think. Okay, but it’s not something we can write off either. Sure. The other thing is I read something just recently that said, coming from the U.N. is this something? It was a U.N. article where they were saying that the Palestinians were lying because they’re starving and so they’re lining up for food and there is an Israeli soldier. These are kinds of things that truly happen. An Israeli soldier that were just firing on the squad, the people lining up getting food.

Is that reasonably something that could have happened? The un it was in one of their articles. This is, this is extremely well documented. But let’s, let’s rewind a little bit. So at the beginning of this year, through the middle part of this year, the Israelis imposed an 11 week total siege on the entirety of the Gaza Strip. Eleven weeks in which no fuel, no food, no medicine, no water, no reconstruction supplies, no tents. Nothing was allowed to enter the Gaza Strip at all. In the middle of this 11 week siege, you know, the official body that follows and tracks starvation and conflict zones.

Their maps were shaded completely red. We haven’t seen urban hunger this extreme and concentrated since the siege of Leningrad ended in 1944. And to ameliorate the siege, to end it, the Israelis constructed this, should we call it a company? A cutout really, called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Now the Gaza Humanitarian foundation built four armored citadels. Really, they’re sort of ditches, large ditches with barbed wire fences on the edge of them. Three of them are in the, the deep south of the Gaza Strip. One of them is near what’s called the Netzerim Corridor, which is a military corridor that runs from Israel to the Mediterranean Sea and across which nobody is allowed to pass.

And again, this is to concentrate the population of Gaza to make them dependent on the. On the aid that Israel allows them to have. And I think even before the operation of these centers, we didn’t think that there would just be massacres, shootings, but this is what has happened. Palestinians queue up for aid, the only aid that they’re allowed to have, and they are shot at from the machine guns mounted on tanks as they’re lining up to receive the only food that they’re allowed to have. I think the death toll for the shootings that have taken place at the.

At. At these aid sites is something like 4, 4 or 500 now and about 2,000 wounded. And this happens pretty much every single day. You know, the Gaza Humanitarian foundation itself was so proud of itself when one day nobody had been shot outside one of these aid stations that it put out a press release saying, so that’s a pretty poultry state of affairs. But again, this is. This is one of the. This is one of the sort of thumb screws that are applied to the entirety of Gazan society that go hungry. The only food they’re allowed to have, they have to risk being shot in order to access.

Okay, well, that is a psychological operation to an extreme. What kind of, you know, the fact that they have to stand in line to get food in order to survive and risk their life and be scared, you know, to just make thinking they might get shot while they’re standing in line, to me, then it’s an extremely psychological trauma to be put through that. What kind of mental state are these soldiers in where they’re just pegging people off as they’re standing in line? And how are they allowed to do that? It’s. It’s a tricky question. How are the soldiers allowed to do that? Because they have brigade and divisional commanders who allow this to happen and who order it.

There’s been quite a lot of testimony recently to an Israeli organization called Breaking the Silence. Very good, very righteous, very worthy organization. It collects testimony of human rights violations and crimes within the idf. And so these are soldiers who are coming forward, having witnessed these things, having done them themselves, who are saying, the brigade commanders, the company commanders allow us to house, to do this, to fire into crowds, not warning shots, just direct fire into very, very large crowds of people. Some of them are traumatized. This is what you sign up for, I guess. I mean, this.

You, you know, Israel has a conscript army. They have the draft. But there are, you know, a number of Israeli citizens who refused the draft. They refuse to be conscripted into the Army. Yeah, that’s not everybody. And they, and they go to prison to do it. So, you know, there’s no, there’s no reason why anyone should serve in the idf, I don’t think, especially when it’s going to make you a party to immense crimes, really the worst crimes of the modern age. And it will mean that you also come out incredibly traumatized and incredibly damaged. But then again, their damage and their trauma is nothing against what the Palestinian people have experienced for 20 months.

Okay, so, so is this a genocide in your mind? This is very difficult. I mean, genocide has a legal definition, but it also has a moral definition as well. Eventually, in several years time, there will be a hearing at the international, International Court of Justice in the Hague in which Israel will be called to answer for the crime of genocide. It’ll be very, very difficult for the judges at the ICJ to convict for several reasons. One of them is the use of airstrikes, the bombing campaign. There is, so far as we know, there is a target, a Hamas target for every single bomb that has been dropped.

They don’t just drop them willy nilly. This isn’t Operation Rolling Thunder in Vietnam in 1968. These are all pinpoint targeting. However, the IDF’s and the Air force’s rules of engagement have completely exploded the idea of proportionality, which says that there is a specific ratio of the person who has been targeted against the potential for collateral damage, what we call civilian casualties. Right. And the Israelis have allowed a ratio of 20 or 30 to 1. So for every low ranking member of Hamas that they target, they allow for 20 to 30 civilians killed. For high ranking members of Hamas, that number goes up to 300 to 1.

And just to put this in context, when the United States went to go assassinate Osama bin Laden, the non combat casualty cutoff value was 30. So this is why we’re seeing civilian casualties that are this high, specifically in the bombing campaign. Now it is possible to kill children legally. That’s a very, very distressing thought, but there are allowances within international law, particularly the justification of military necessity. And another thing that’s just one have fallen out the back of my head. I’m sorry, that allow you to kill civilians. Now when Israel will go to the International Court of Justice under this charge of genocide, they will be able to present in their defense the fact that most of the missiles that were dropped and the bombs that were dropped were dropped on targets that they themselves believe were Hamas operatives.

Yeah, but how can they justify the, the lines, the starvation lines, the cutting off the food, the killing of people in line, the psychological terror behind that, the, the coerced immigration. All those other things. Yes. So on the other side of the, of the spectrum, if you like, you have several things. The siege and starvation, deliberate starvation, hunger as a weapon of war. This is, these are the charges that were laid against both Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant when the icc, the International Criminal Court, which is different from the icj, it’s very confusing. They issued their arrest warrants late last year.

One of the major, major charges was for starvation of a civilian population. One of the. So that’ll, that’ll be a massive challenge to the Israeli lawyers. It’ll be difficult for them to argue themselves out of that one. The other thing is that under the Genocide Convention, there’s very, very strict, strict threshold of intent. You have to prove conclusively that the perpetrators of any atrocity did so with the intent to cause the destruction in whole or in part. Right. That’s the wording within the convention. From day one, from October 8, Israeli leaders have been saying fulsomely out loud again and again and again exactly what they’re doing.

They told you what they’re doing while they did it. And I include in the, in the list, in the book, I have a long list of statements by Israeli politicians and military officers that I believe are expressions of intent to destroy the entirety of the population. I mean, give me an example. Give me an example. Yeah. So at the top of the show, I mentioned some what UAV Gallant said on October 8, and he said, we’re fighting human animals and we’re acting accordingly. We’re imposing a total siege on Gaza. The title of the book itself, Blowing Up Everything is Beautiful, is pretty much an exact quote from the Israeli heritage Minister, a guy named Amochai Eliyahu, who said, I think In November of 2023, North Gaza is more beautiful than ever.

Blowing up and flattening everything is, is beautiful. Well, but also it gets, I don’t mean to cut you off, but it gets to the, the, the people that I heard talk about, the fact that they were killing, they were going after Hamas and all the people who are guilty and every single person there, including the children, are guilty. So in their mind, they’ve justified killing everybody, certainly. And it runs, as I said before, through the entire Israeli political class and throughout, throughout the entirety of the army as well. It’s a common refrain, it’s a common master.

But it’s also important to remember that this, this war, and it is still a War. Genocides can occur against a backdrop of war. The class, all the classic cases are the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust. Of course this is still a war, but it’s a war utterly without legitimacy, you know. Well, Hamas doesn’t remotely have the same firepower. I mean, they’re pretty, I mean, are they really like in a legit fighting power against. It seems like if, if they were a legit fighting power, it would be something more equal. Their whole people wouldn’t be, it wouldn’t be decimated.

I mean they would be trying. It seems like all they’re trying to do is fight for survival versus actually fighting a real war. Or is it, am I not giving them enough respect? Look, it’s. Hamas have already self abnegated. They’ve said if there is a ceasefire deal that is agreed, we will voluntarily give up power either to the Fatah party in the west bank in Ramallah, or to some kind of technocratic committee or a sort of commission of nations, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, that sort of thing. So they’ve already said we’ll give up power if a ceasefire was secured.

So why then is the war still being fought? If Hamas can be destroyed politically as well as militarily, if they’ve already said we’re willing to give up power, why is the war still going on? You know, for the past 20 months, one of the major justifications for the continuance of the war has been the rescue of Israeli hostages. Let’s run the numbers. In 20 months of constant combat, the IDF by military action has managed to rescue eight hostages and shot three more in the process. How many of those, how many hostages were released by negotiation and by ceasefire? 140.

So if negotiation and ceasefire are the only reliable means to rescue the hostages, why then hasn’t this taken place yet? So why Ehud Olmet, the former Israeli Prime Minister and a convicted crook by the way, said that this was a, a war without purpose or justification? It is, it is a war without justification. But I think it does have a purpose and that purpose is the total destruction of, of, of the Palestinians of, of the Gaza Strip. Okay, so I’m going to zoom out and not look at legal details and legal things, right? I mean everybody wants to, we have to look at it the legally.

Is this a genocide? Can we prove it lawfully? We’re watching something that I believe is obviously crime. The world is doing nothing but waiting for there to be legal proceedings. At what point is it, are, are we complicit in genocide or in at minimum a genocide just because Some legal scholars don’t decide because they can do games and they can fight and they can convince everybody it’s not. We’re watching something that’s clearly wrong, at what point is it that the rest of the world is complicit and is this kind of our lot in life where we have to just watch this occur? I think the.

The imperative now is to object, to object to what is being done in any way possible. Here in Britain, where I am, the British government has moved to prescribe a particular militant group, and I use the term militant quite specifically, militant group called Palestine Action, who were sabotaging the arms factories that were supplying weapons to Israel. And the government has designated them as a terrorist group. Now, in a strange kind of way, what Palestine Action have done and are still doing under a different guise is kind of strangely conservative. If we leave aside the sort of radical nature of their actions, putting themselves at immense risk to not only sabotage the arms manufacturers, but also to break onto air force base bases here in Britain and to spray paint cargo flights that have been flying from Britain to Cyprus and then on to Israel.

Aside from that radical action, what they’re asking for, what Palestine Action are demanding, is actually strangely conservative. They’re saying the British government should be in accordance with international law. It’s very simple. And we can say the same thing as well, by any means that we have available to us. And we have to. It’s a moral obligation. It’s a favor to the future as well, because we’re very, very quickly heading into territory in which international law will have lost all legitimacy. Everybody will be alone and defenseless before the power of governments. And we will speak of the period of human rights and international law and equal protection and freedom from discrimination as a thing of the past tense, as a thing that existed from 1945 to 2025.

And that’s very, very dangerous, dangerous times that we’re heading into. And to object now, to protest, is a moral obligation and a duty to our future selves. Well, I gotta say that the world is seeing it for what it is, for the most part, and that even though there are legal procedures and things that go down, there are consequences for this that’ll last centuries, possibly. And we are. If you’re on the wrong side of it, people see through it, and it’ll last centuries, and it’ll be ingrained into the. Into the way people think, and it will change the dynamics worldwide.

And we are on the wrong side of this. How, at what point do we just say this is wrong? I think that there are other power structures that exist that are causing people to do irrational things that, that are not good for the United States. I wrote an article or I did a thing I actually, it wasn’t an article I actually spoke about. It is on my, behind my paywall on substack that I said that Israeli Israel is an ally from hell. Because I do see how geopolitically and business wise how they, they are an ally.

But at some point if you’re an, if you have an ally that is committing these kind of crimes, it boomerangs back on you and we have an obligation to not behave this way. I think it’s really important to remember that this war wouldn’t have lasted for maybe more than a few weeks or a month perhaps Israel would have run out of ammunition, it would have run out of bombs, would have run out of missiles. The only reason that they’ve been able to fight and destroy and to pillage and to conquer for as long as they have is because of the government of the United States providing a blank check.

Ukraine doesn’t have, has to go through these ridiculous hurdles in order to access the munitions made in America that can protect them. Israel doesn’t. It has a fast track at the State Department. This is a thing that came out a couple of weeks ago. There is supposed to be a mechanism whereby officials at the State Department check whether the munitions that they’re selling to foreign countries are being used in human rights violations. Israel has a route that goes around those checks. They only check afterwards and then they don’t really check at all because if they really checked they would have cut those arms off a very, very long time ago again.

And legal line backing as well. You know when, when the 11 week siege ended a few months back, Betzel Osmotric, the Israeli finance minister gone up and he says, look, the only reason that we’re really ending the siege is so the world stops accusing us of war crimes and that we continue to retain the protection of the United States. Now there’s a name for that which is a protection racket, right? For a few loaves of bread, the Israeli government is allowed to carry out the worst crimes of the modern age. So to go back to what we were talking about before, protest is all the more important in the United States itself.

And you have to put your body in the street and you have to not be afraid of somebody calling you an anti Semite and you have to not be afraid of the fact that the cops are going to come and kick you in the head on behalf of the Israeli government. Well, the United States passed a law that you can’t, you can’t criticize the Israeli government. They’ve made the criticizing Israel they’ve equated to being anti Semitic, which is the most ridiculous thing in the world for our government to make it illegal to criticize another government and they to equate that to discrimination.

Sure, it’s obscene and it’s absurd. No, no sensible and rational and reasonable criticism of Israel could ever be interpreted as, as anti Semitic. And we should retain a real horror of actual anti Semitism when we see it. I mean, you know, where is the least safe place on earth for Jews at the moment? It’s the state of Israel. That’s a very, very distressing thing. You know, and also don’t forget that American citizens are paying for this. They’re paying for the torture, the torment and the mass murder of another people who are really not so different as that.

US$19 billion in cash and ammunition has been sent to Israel from the United States since October 7th. It’s probably a lot higher now, actually. That’s your money. And I think you should ask anyone in power where it’s gone and what it’s been used for. Well, you know, there’s an Israel journalist that’s really good who talks about the most dangerous thing for Israelis is this, these actions in Gaza. It’s dangerous for Israel to behave this way. It’s dangerous for the United States to be an ally of them behaving this way and backing it up. There’s consequences for crimes like this.

Even if you get away with some legal and power struggle, dominant player, there’s still consequences in the moral soul and the fabric of society. Yes, it’s intensely damaging to anybody who’s involved with it, anybody who touches it, or anybody who’s a perpetrator of these hideous crimes. And it afflicts the people who have to watch it as well. It’s an incredibly difficult thing for anybody who watches the nightly news or to, who reads the news on their phone or whatever or you know, even get, still gets a newspaper. It’s immensely damaging to watch this happen and to continue to happen and be told in the process that this is necessary because they’re evil animals.

Exactly. When your consciousness is saying, wait a minute, you’re killing innocent people and then you’re being told, no, they’re not innocent, when you know your gut, your every part of your being knows that it’s wrong. And if you’re a Christian, you know that Jesus taught 90% of what he taught was that this is wrong. You have to ignore that in order to support that. Well, I mean, there’s a certain irony in the fact that the largest group of ideological Zionists in the world are not in Israel, they’re evangelical Christians in the United States. This, this side of things really frightens me because it’s intended in earnest.

I mean, these are people who really do want to bring about the apocalypse. They want to sacrifice a red heifer on the Temple Mount. And for these Stone Age beliefs we have to tolerate the murder of several thousand people every single month. That doesn’t sound like a good bargain to me. I refuse that. I don’t want that. And I really do hope that everybody watching objects to this as the moral outrage that it is. And it’s not a political thing. It shouldn’t be political. It shouldn’t be left against right. It should be right against wrong. I agree.

I mean, look, I have to say from my own side that the left has been the only group who’s been consistently opposed to what is being done to the Palestinians from the very, very start. On the other hand, I’ve noticed that amongst, amongst the right, especially in the United States, that there has been a little bit of, a bit of pushback, even if it is a kind of, a kind of isolationism if you like, but at least a reticence, at least a questioning of the rationale for giving so much cash and so much ammunition to another state to annihilate a people.

So, you know, welcome to the club. You come in a bit late, but we’re happy to have you. Well, I don’t think that they’re a bit late. I think that’s condescending to say it like that. I think that there is a group of libertarian minded people who’ve always been about freedom and have never approved of this kind of behavior. So they’ve never been late, they’ve always been there. I think it’s the, the, the notion that there’s two groups that only think a certain way in a big country such as this is, is too simplistic. And, and so I think it’s condescending one way or the other to, to group them, anybody like that because it’s just not accurate.

So, and I think that people have always seen through these kind of behaviors. I do have to ask you one more question. How did we get to the point where that this level of thinking, you know, when the Holocaust happened, they wanted to prove to people, they wanted to teach people that we will never have this happen again. And ironically, the people who this, who suffered through it initially are the ones perpetrating it. Now, how did we get to that point? So it’s a long and complicated story. I think some people think of this as a kind of tragic irony, as a.

As a thing that wasn’t necessarily fated to happen. But it’s just an observation that we can make. But I think it actually kind of makes it worse because it means that the discrimination and the torture and the repression and now the mass murder of by one people who had that same thing happen to themselves, prejudices, the whole, the whole equation, right? It makes it so much. It’s a heightened accelerant. It makes it so much more distasteful and grotesque. But then again, it’s precisely because of the Holocaust and the lessons that were learned from it that branch off in two different directions.

You know, one of them was that we built this architecture of human rights and international law, equal protection for everybody under the law, and justice and equality and all the rest of it. That was the lesson that was learned from the Nuremberg trials in 1946. But then the lesson that was learned in Israel was that we must always use force. We must always use extreme violence in order to stave off the possibility of there being a second Showa, a second Holocaust. But then that became. That was transformed into anybody who challenges even slightly the legitimacy, legitimacy of the state of Israel immediately becomes transformed into another Holocaust is imminent.

I wrote a piece for the anniversary of October 7th in 2024, in which I said, you know, the morning after, there should have been a realization that the occupation of Palestinian territories doesn’t make Jews any safer, doesn’t make Israelis any safer. Instead, it has made it more perilous to live there. It means that you have a garrison state. It means that you constantly are involving your citizens in crimes and hideous things against people who don’t deserve it. And fundamentally, it means that you always produce your own antagonist. There will always be resistance to the Israeli occupation, and that resistance has more grounding under international law than the occupation does.

That’s been ruled an illegal occupation, and the resistance to that occupation is legitimate. We can disagree with the methods that hamas used on October 7, but fundamentally, resistance as a concept is legitimate. They should have reversed the tanks back into their depots, put the planes back in the hangars, and return to the negotiating table. A two state solution, a one state solution, a federated state. Whatever it is, the realization is the thing that needed to happen, that violence is cyclical. It’ll always happen so long as you submit an entire population to outrages like these. So where can people buy your book and follow your work? They should be available in all good bookstores everywhere, I hope.

But try online I think Barnes and Noble, Amazon, that sort of thing. And I’m available on Twitter as it used to be called. Jamesarobbins R O B I N S thank you so much for joining the program. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Sample Sam.
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