Power and Money: The Epic Clashes Between Commanders in Chief and Titans of Industry w/ Tevi Troy

➡ The text discusses the historical power struggles between political leaders and industry titans, highlighting the influence of big tech companies in recent years. It also mentions a special offer from 1775 Coffee Jeff’s, where customers can get $200 worth of coffee for $99. The text also introduces an interview with Tabby Troy, who has extensive experience working with various White House administrations and shares his insights on the power dynamics between big industry and presidents. The text criticizes universities for stifling growth and innovation, and discusses the need for more open and challenging conversations about these issues.
➡ CEOs can be beneficial to presidents by providing economic advice, personnel, and funding. However, the rise of the internet and big tech companies has shifted power dynamics, with these companies now controlling much of the narrative and potentially suppressing the average person. While this has led to increased freedom of speech, it also allows for greater control over who gets heard. This has implications for how presidents interact with these companies, as they are now significant players in the economy and society.
➡ The text discusses the unique approach of a president who is more of an entrepreneur than a traditional politician. This president is not afraid of negative press and is determined to push forward with his plans. The text also delves into the challenges faced by Ukraine, including war, corruption, and economic struggles. Despite these issues, there is hope for Ukraine’s future if they can harness their potential and love for freedom.
➡ The article discusses the increasing power of the presidency in the 21st century, with presidents like Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden expanding their authority beyond what it was in the 90s. This shift has been enabled by Congress giving away its own power through legislation. The article also highlights the importance of free speech and the ability to criticize governments, but condemns criminal acts disguised as protests. It emphasizes the need for a fair process in decision-making, regardless of whether one agrees with the outcome or not.
➡ The text discusses concerns about the suppression of free speech and the propagation of misinformation, particularly in relation to historical events and current issues. It highlights the importance of alternative platforms for sharing ideas that mainstream institutions may not support. The text also criticizes the lack of intellectual diversity in universities and the potential bias in AI technology. Lastly, it expresses worry about the U.S.’s $37 trillion debt and the potential for an economic collapse.
➡ The speaker discusses concerns about potential misuse of technology and the suppression of free speech. They express optimism for the future, citing technological advancements that have improved our lives. They also discuss the importance of understanding history and the need for intellectual diversity in universities. Finally, they mention the potential for undiscovered historical knowledge that could change our understanding of who we are.

Look, I think a lot of this dates back to the breakup of the Soviet Union and the rise of the oligarchs but, but also the rise of the mafia and corruption. And it’s not been a system that’s based, whether in Ukraine or in Russia that’s based on Western ordered liberty or the rule of law. And when you don’t have that, you, you get the rule of the jungle. And that’s been a problem in that whole area. We should treasure the system that we have where people do have ordered liberty and we go by the rule of law.

1775 Coffee Jeff’s dropped another starter kit and this time it’s $200 worth of coffee for only $99. You get three full size bags of coffee including this dark roast. You get a smooth medium roast and you get the anti aging blend. And yes, it really does help you stay younger while you’re drinking coffee every day. Plus you get exclusive merchandise including a black tumbler and an amazing frother and a gold spoon. All of this is single origin, small batch mold free and toxin free. Every bag is rated 85 plus on the cupping scale. That means it’s classified is one of the top specialty coffees in the world.

They have the same values you do and they have amazingly great coffee. Go to1775coffee.com Sarah and get $200 worth of coffee for only $99. There’s only a TH000 kits like this, so be sure to act on it right now. Again, 1775 Coffee.com Sarah welcome to Business Game changers. I’m Sarah Westall. I have Tabby Troy coming to the program and I gotta tell you, he is has a ton of experience working with the White House, various White Houses, various administrations. And he’s been very active and he’s not a name that necessarily everybody knows, but he’s somebody that I wanted to bring in because of his vast experience.

He was the deputy Secretary of Homeland Security which is that was in 2007 that he was sworn in. And that’s the largest federal government agency that we have. And so he was responsible for the largest agency in the country at that time. And people just don’t realize how much power some of these people have. But what he recently wrote a book about the clash of titans between the commander in chief and business titans. And so I wanted to understand that because I think that people don’t understand, you know, what is the power struggles that go on between big industry and presidents.

And how does that, you know, Affect policy. And I wanted to go there, I wanted to challenge him and some ideas and hear what he has to say. Because I personally think that universally universities are stifling growth and keeping us in this, this bubble of almost, you know, maybe it served a really good purpose to inform and educate people for a while. Now it’s actually doing, it’s keeping us down and it’s oppressing us because we’re not able to thrive and learn and change our ideas. And so I channel, I wanted to hear his thoughts on that.

I, you know, I, I challenge him on pretty much all the big ideas going on right now. And I want to hear his perspective on it. And I think it’s promising that people like him are seeing it. They’re seeing what we’re seeing. He says he’s kind of an outsider anyways, he wouldn’t be accepted in the university system today and he thinks differently. But I got to tell you, it’s promising to see people who are that, who served in those roles and are that connected to be able to have these conversations and also see what I’m seeing.

Because if we unleash people’s ability to challenge narratives, to challenge history, to challenge, you know, come up with innovation and new ideas and to, to grow humanity, to thrive and to grow and do new things, then you know, I, nobody can control that but humanity and our collective consciousness. Then we’re off to the races. Right now we have all these powerful institutions that are oppressing Harvard and Yale and all these people are oppressing our thoughts. They’re keeping us in a, keeping us from growing. They think they’re the ones who are expanding knowledge. They’re doing the opposite because there’s so much growing that could happen if they just got rid of their oppressive nature, their, their claws on society and, and released it, you know, we were released to flourish instead of, you know, so I wanted to challenge him on all these things.

We also talk about Ukraine because he has deep knowledge of Ukraine and what’s going on there. You know, this isn’t a show that we’re gonna talk about all the day to day headlines and you’re gonna hear some new exploding headline. We’re going to talk about deep conversation on where things are going and how, you know, what the thought process are behind these institutions. I think it’s, it’s a, it’s a good show. I like these shows. I think it’s where we need to go. I think we need to be having these conversations. We don’t need to be so dumbed down where we’re whiplash day to day on all the latest headlines and we don’t think about anything smart.

We’re just like bopping all around. And so these are the smart conversations that are important to have and they need to be having these at the top. You know, all these think tanks and the versies himself, they need to be having these conversations. So anyways, before we get into that, I want to remind you that I have the replay of the Peptide seminar that I did with Dr. Diane Kaser that’s on my substack and a lot of people are asking for it. You can get to that by going to the link below. Otherwise it’s called replay.

You know, the Peptide replay. I am trying to hopefully by the time this airs it’ll also be loaded on local. So all of my subscribers I have I’m getting my all of that 10 part series right now. I think the majority of that temperature series that I did over the summer on mind control 5th generation warfare that is going up for my subscribers. It’s usually 99 to buy it. And if you’re a subscriber on either substack or locals you’ll have access to it plus all the other exclusives. The replay of the Peptide seminar is also behind a payroll wall.

$8 to join. I just, you know, I have to make somebody and I appreciate those of you who support it because you know that 10 part series was a months of work, a lot of editing costs. It’s expensive to do stuff like that. So those of you who support my show and support me by subscribing to me, I really, really, really appreciate that. And so I’ll have links of that below. If you’re watching on Rumble, you can watch it by just or you could just join locals or if you join my substack, that’s also my newsletter.

So either or they’re going to, they’re eventually it’s going to be completely linked up. So every time I put a new post you’ll get it on either platform. But remember, please remember to subscribe to do a thumbs up on my my show is if you’re listening to this on audio podcasts on Spotify or on Apple or on Iheart Podbean, take us a second and do a review of the show. It really helps, you know, try to do a good review. Okay, well thank you everybody who supports me and let’s get into this really engaging conversation with Tabby Choi.

Hi Tabby, welcome to the program. Hi, thanks. I’m really excited to Be here. Excellent. You have some insights that I want listeners to hear about because the power structure of the world. We are in a. You know, the world has changed quite a bit in the last couple decades. And it’s always been a power struggle of the most powerful competing with each other. And you wrote a book about the Commander in Chief and the titans of industry battling it out and how it’s always a struggle between them. What is the title of that book? Because I’m not saying it right.

It’s called the Power and the Money. The Epic Clashes between Commanders in Chief and Titans of Industry. It’s about the 150 year history of, of CEOs and presidents, their, their clashes, their collaborations and the world that they built together. And we are in. No, I mean this time is no different except the structure of the world has changed quite a bit in the last two decades with big tech is taking over, period, end of story. We don’t have, we haven’t had corporations this size in the history of the world that has been openly discussed. Right. I mean, maybe there has been some, you know, the banking families were bigger than what people really realize.

But as far as what’s openly shown to the public, the whole structure of the world has changed. Is it even possible to get into power without associating yourself with some of these titans? Yeah, it’s a really good question. Obviously, there are a number of things that presidents look for from these titans, from CEOs, from big business people. First, there is celebrity. There’s a sense that you have these people on your side and it shows that maybe you’re a good steward of the economy. So that’s helpful. People have looked, for example, to Henry Ford bringing into the White House when economic times were tough.

The second thing is they can be a source of personnel. Henry Luce brought in staffers to serve in the Eisenhower administration. Ross Perot did a similar thing with the Nixon administration. Third thing, as a source of money. Sometimes they contribute money. J.P. morgan contributed almost as much to the McKinley campaign in 1996 as the Democratic campaign raised in total. So, so sometimes money is a big factor as well. So there’s a number of things you can get from CEOs and I think they’re helpful to presidents in their rise to power. Yeah, but okay, let’s say now the whole industry that I contend that the entire power shift has happened.

The Internet has created a whole another world and that the messaging and the nar nar narrative is in the hands of so few right now. And that it, you have to capitalize on it and to a point where they’ve realized that where they’re controlling it and freedom itself is at risk. I think. I think there’s been a 180 on the whole point of the American freedom ideal. And the elites are taking over. And maybe as a byproduct, they didn’t even realize how much they’re changing the psyche of the American people by propping up institutions, powerful institutions, and suppressing the average person.

And it’s creating a caste system that is. Maybe the. The American people aren’t used to it. And it’s maybe worse than any caste system we’ve ever seen, because now it’s. The powerful are controlling the messaging to a point we’ve never seen it in human history, at least in this country. What do you say about that? I agree with some of what you’re saying, but there’s another side to it as well. First of all, there have been big corporations that have led to major tectonic shifts in American society. Rockefeller dominates the oil industry, and oil has huge implications for everything in terms of creating a power pressure.

You can print more copies of things. Electric light, people can stay up all night. Factories working. All did record. Hold on a second. They did. But I’d say that the. The structure of the world has changed. Where big oil is nowhere near the power it used to be. But at one point, it was like everything. I’m sorry. Yes. Yeah, right. Or Henry Ford creates the automobile. Not. Not the automobile, but the automobile that’s accessible to everybody. And suddenly you have a country where the car is a new source of freedom. People are traveling everywhere, but at the same time, the government gets more involved and starts regulating things, building and subsidizing and regulating roads.

There are rules about taking people across state lines. The FBI becomes more of a power because people are more mobile. So sometimes you have more freedom, but you also have more restrictions. And then if you want to get to today’s section that you were talking about with the big tech companies, yeah, there are some people with massive amounts of influence and massive amounts of power. But there’s also so many more ways to get your voice out. I mean, look at this podcast that we’re doing right now. It’s just one person talking to another person over the interwebs, as it were.

And, you know, from what I hear, lots and lots of people listen. So you have a way of getting your voice out that is not necessarily controlled by Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg. So there’s restrictions and there’s also additional freedoms. I think there’s a balance. Yeah. And in my role, I’ve seen certain players get really propped up and then others get totally suppressed. So. But I think that probably backfires in our climate. But you have to work really hard. You have to do guerrilla type methods to get to people because it’s. They can control it much more than people realize.

Plus the messaging can be repetitive so that the, the vast amount of people are susceptible to that. All true, but in the 19th century, you had no way to get your voice heard. I mean, I guess you can go to the town square and shout your head off, or you could appear at the theater, which is where most people would gather together, but you couldn’t reach people. I mean, this podcast can be heard all over the world. It’s an amazing thing. It’s like books, it’s like the printing press. But now. Yeah, yeah. So you have the way to get your word out.

And it is absolutely true that these platforms can promote or suppress people that they like. So if there’s a voice they don’t like, when we saw this during COVID they could say, we’re going to suppress these ideas or with the Hunter Biden laptop. But at the same time, there are ways to get the word out that never before existed. So I’m excited about it, even as I’m wary. I would agree with you. It’s kind of like this double edged thing. We’re in the freest time and the most oppressive time at the same time. It’s kind of a weird dynamic, isn’t it? Yeah.

So I have more capacity to say what I want than at any time in human history. But do I have the capacity to have other people hear it? Well, the platforms are in charge of that in a way, so they can suppress me, but I could go and say anything I want in the middle of the street in a way that you couldn’t in the 19th century. So the, the First Amendment is, I think, more expansive than ever. But the ability of some players to control who gets hurt and who doesn’t was also. Is also more powerful than ever.

Yeah, it’s this weird dichotomy economy of 2 all at the same time. Okay. But that changes the structure of the world too, and, and the power and the money. So the current administration, and this is what I want to dive into, the current administration has to work with big tech in some way because of that, because they’re massive. I mean, look at Apple, it’s over 3 trillion. I mean, it’s massive market cap. They’ve never seen anything like that in the history of the world other than central bankers. And they don’t publish what they have. So how does that change how the commander in chief needs to work with these companies? Because it’s different.

Well, I totally agree that they have to deal with companies, but the companies also have to deal with them. They do. One of the messages of the Power of the Money is the rise of the regulatory state. The federal government has a say on who you hire and where you sell your products and what kind of products you can sell and what you can do with the environmental offshoots. If you are a smart, savvy CEO, you need to be thinking about what the federal government is doing to you and could do to you every single day.

Now, at the same time, you’re right. If the tech platforms are against you or these big, big companies, $3 trillion companies are against you, as a politician, you have some challenges. So what I. The way I kind of resolve it in the book, in the Power of the Money, is that in any one clash at one time, the president probably has more power. But over time, these tech titans can last for decades in office, while a president is limited to four or eight years. And so in one discrete moment, the president has more power. Over time, the tech titans can have more power.

Well, and isn’t it true that the deep state bureaucracy just kind of waits out the current administration? I mean, they know that, that politicians go in and out, and so they use their power in the background to get them out as soon as possible. And then. And they know that it’s all, it’s. It’s a process they use. Now we have somebody in we don’t like, so let’s get them out as soon as possible, wait it out, and then we can do what we need to with the next administration or politician. That’s absolutely true. And I saw that in the Bush administration when I served in government, people would say, okay, we were here before you, we’ll be here after you.

But what’s different in this Trump administration is the speed with what she’s moving. It’s almost like the first administration was a test case for what can we do without having to worry about Congress or outside forces? What can we do on our own? And now after they test the limits in that first term, now they’re trying to use or deploy all the lessons they learned to get as much stuff done unilaterally. I don’t think Trump has an ideology. I think he has a methodology. And the methodology appears to be unilateralist. What can I do unilaterally? That includes tariffs, that includes pardons, that includes canceling contracts.

So all these things that he realized in the first term that he had the capacity to do is now doing them in the second term from day one. And it’s scaring people, isn’t it? Because we haven’t seen anybody this prepared ever for the presidency. And also somebody who is more of an entrepreneur, because I taught entrepreneurship at, you know, at a university. And it’s a different mindset. It’s a go get it done mindset versus a normal politician, which is whether you like what he’s doing or not. That’s the mindset. Whereas the politicians always kind of like, you know, playing, making sure people are happy.

I mean, they’re different. And so. Yeah, absolutely. And so nobody. That coupled with the four years to plan, nobody’s ever. This is just really throwing a lot of people off, isn’t it? It’s scaring the heck out of the political establishment that’s completely unused to this. Yeah. Look, when I served in the Bush administration and there was a new idea, might have been controversial, we would say, let’s game it out, let’s talk to the press, let’s drop a trial balloon. Let’s. Let’s talk to Democrats in Congress, Republicans in Congress, see how people react. There’s none of that in this administration because in a way, they don’t necessarily care if there’s negative blowback.

They’re used to it. They get negative blowback on everything they do. So they’re just going to push forward and do what they do. And if there’s bad headlines, Trump likes headlines. It doesn’t matter if they’re good or bad. You know, there’s a great story in one of the biographies of Trump by a Washington Post reporter that said when he was 15 years old, he played in his high school baseball game and he got a hit. And the next day the local paper reported that he got a hit, and he said, I want more of that. He liked being in the newspapers, and he’s built his whole career around it.

He doesn’t care if someone tell us this. He’s a, you know, blowhard or whatever. I mean, I get a smear, you know, someone write a smear article on me and I hate it. But he doesn’t care. I mean, they just. Which is kind of interesting, I suppose. The people who are the most successful are like, I don’t care if you tell me the meanest thing about me, because it actually helps me. Yeah. He likes being written about, even if it’s negative. Yeah, it’s incredible. The normal human instinct is not to have negative stuff written about you.

And you don’t like it if something negative written. I mean, do you. I mean, do you like it when you get beat up and somebody just says that meanest thing they can about you? It’s hard to take it. Heck no. Yeah, I know. I mean, so the fact that he could. It takes a different type of person to. Okay, so let’s talk. Your experience internationally is quite deep, and your experience with Ukraine is quite deep. And Ukraine has been the center of a lot of headlines. And I’ve done a lot of coverage on Ukraine for many years.

Way before COVID and you know, it used to be the military industrial complex for the Soviet Union, and then it broke up. It had the highest GDP of the entire area, and now it has the lowest gdp. It’s been completely decimated. What is your overall view of Ukraine? And then I want to dive into how it’s been completely, completely decimated. And the crooks. It was kind of like a dying carcass now, but it feels like the crooks just came in and raided it from day one. Yeah. I actually wrote an article at the beginning of the.

This latest Ukraine war where I talked about presidents in Ukraine, how presidents have often not understood or mistreated Ukraine. Now, US Presidents have done Ukraine wrong many a time over many, many years. So it’s just not a new phenomenon. And. And yes, there is a lot of potential in Ukraine. And you’re right. Breadbasket and military industrial complex. It’s one of the reasons why Russia wants it so bad because there’s so much potential there. But the war has been devastating and the undermining of democracy there. And obviously there’s some corruption too. So, yeah, it’s a really challenging place.

But I hope we can get past this war and the Ukrainian people can deploy their vast internal resources and their drive and their love for freedom and we can get to a better place. Okay, well, freedom is kind of a joke almost right now when they shut down the press and all these things. And the other thing is. And I think Robert Kennedy Jr. Had a. Is right on point when he said the Ukrainian people were fighting to keep their land. And the only thing that happened was the international corporations came in and we sold what happened.

They fought, fought all this. They lost a whole generation of people. The Internet. The international corporations came in, bought out the land, and now they owe money to Pay off the loan of, you know, paying everybody off. So all they did is still lose their land to international corporation corporations and then lost a whole generation of people. I mean war is so evil. Go ahead. Yeah. And also think about the Clinton administration. They got rid of the nuclear weapons in Ukraine with a guarantee that they would protect Ukraine and maintain its territorial integrity while the nuclear weapons are gone.

But the guarantee didn’t really come to fruition. That’s why you say that the presidents have done them wrong and it’s just constantly doing them wrong. Right. And the, the other thing is I had a whistleblower on my program from a banking Christopher Snow I think is. No, Chris Christmas was his last name. And I’m so sorry I messed up your name Christmas. He was awesome. He was from the Latvia banking situation and they laundered the entire Ukrainian treasury through his banking thing. And the central bankers, he has so much evidence that they covered it up and allowed it.

So there’s a lot of criminal activity that at the highest levels that support this stuff. Why, I mean what, why would they be okay with allowing the entire treasury to be stolen? This was in 2014, just a brief interruption to the program to talk to you about Peptides. I’m working with Dr. Diane Kayser to bring you guys Peptides. I’ll have a link below. So if you have any questions on any of this, you can join her tribe for a dollar and get all your questions answered. But I have some exciting ones to bring to you. I’m using them too.

I have this anti aging one that works wonders on helping the cell generation and building up your collagen. And then I have the ritatrutide. If I pronounce that right, the Rita Troutide has shown in studies, it’s amazing in 36 weeks in human trials have shown an average of 24% reduction in body weight. Incredible. And then I have another one, slupp332. That one you can get in capsules. I call it the moron proof because you can get it in capsules. You don’t have to inject yourself. It’s not nasal spray. But that one has is making in the bodybuilding industry is just game changer because in mice in the trials it showed a 12% reduction in body weight.

In four weeks it mimics exercise, they’re seeing 70% greater increase endurance. I mean it’s just incredible. It’s taking that industry by storm. And you can get it in capsules. And I have a link below as well. I’m very excited about this. So I hope you join me in this journey and try some of these peptides. Okay, so I’ll have the link below, or you can go to sarahwestsalt.com under shop. Look, I think a lot of this dates back to the breakup of the Soviet Union and the rise of the oligarchs, but, but also the rise of the mafia and corruption.

And it’s not been a system that’s based, whether in Ukraine or in Russia, that’s based on Western ordered liberty or the rule of law. And when you don’t have that, you, you get the rule of the jungle. And that’s been a problem in that whole area. We should treasure the system that we have where people do have ordered liberty and we go by the rule of law. And it’s what allows our system to sit there and thrive even when we have challenges, even when we have, you know, sometimes better presidents, sometimes worse presidents. But we, we managed to make it through because there is the core of the system where everybody has faith in the rule of law, that it will apply equally to everyone.

And that makes a big difference. Well, and that’s why cleaning up the justice system is so important. We can’t have judges that are just, like, willing. I, we don’t have a jury system. The judges just make the decisions. And so there. It’s so ripe for blackmail and for coercion. Yeah. And also, if you weaponize the Justice Department, if you have this whole thing of lawfare, if you, if you criminalize political differences, then both parties are going to say, well, you did it to me, I’m going to do it to you. And I think we really need to get away from this whole idea of criminalizing political differences.

Sometimes I disagree with you on policy. Doesn’t mean you should go to jail for it. Well, that’s the important thing. How do we get to that? It’s just kind of like supporting free speech. You, you have to have an ideal. And then you can’t just say, I support, you know, I support justice only if you agree with me, or I support free speech only when you agree with me. I mean, that’s now. I mean, as soon as you don’t do that now, you’re a tyrant. Yeah. And, and, and we’ve seen unfortunate instances of it over. I think it’s been a problem throughout the 21st century.

It’s become more and more of an issue in recent years. The other thing we’re seeing, that’s, that’s, that’s in line with that is what I Call the, the shifting 21st century presidency, the rise of a more powerful presidency. As Congress cedes authority and the president does more and more, that’s what enables Trump to engage in his unilateralist approach. It’s not just Trump who came up with everything. It was George W. Bush, for whom I work, who expanded the homeland security state, and Obama who said he had a pen and a phone so he didn’t have to worry about Congress, and Biden who said that he’s not going to do student loans forgiveness through Congress, but he’s going to do it by himself.

And so you take all these presidents of the 21st century, Trump and Biden and Obama and Bush, and they’ve all expanded the presidency to where it’s a bigger and more powerful office than it was when Bill Clinton left it at the end of the 90s. Well, and Congress is a blame, too, for being stupid to write rules or write legislation that takes away their own power. Right. I mean, that they, they like the Patriot Act. I mean, they do things, they sign into legislation giving away their power, which undermines the country. Yeah. Or tariffs. Congress has had a chance to take back tariffs.

It was traditionally Congress’s authority to do tariffs. And in the Biden administration, the Democrats had an opportunity where the Republicans sponsored to bring tariff authority back to Congress. And the Democrats refused to do it then, and I think they’re regretting it now. Well, and, you know, I’ve had different people on my show, too, that say 85% of all decisions are not made in Congress and they’re pretty much neutered to a certain degree. And they get so few things done because so much happens with the, the bureaucracy, like what we said at the beginning, and that the, the deep state bureaucracy just rides it out or knows that.

Yeah. And, and they’re just given authority by Congress to do more and more. I mean, the, the Obamacare law, it had the direction the secretary shall, hundreds of times in it, meaning Congress said, okay, we generally want this to happen, but the Secretary shall write the rules that allow it to happen or govern how it happens. And that means that you’re kind of at the whim of administration, as opposed to going through a political process where both sides have to agree and you make some compromises. It’s not that. It’s just going. Shifting from a complete Democrat approach to a complete Republican approach, as opposed to what I think the framers intended, where legislation would be done through the congressional process.

And the congressional process is such that for the most part, you have to have both parties buy in to some degree, you get some kind of compromise. And the current system we have is not. It’s just about switching from one side to the other, depending on who won last election. Well, it’s more obvious than it used to be because of the presidential executive orders. It’s like one extreme to the other. And if it’s. If your guys in office, you’re kind of like, okay, I like this. But when you’re not guys not in office, you’re like, it’s horrifying.

Right. I gotta tell you, I. Biden, to me, was awful, and people know that. I just thought he was awful. And I think Trump’s better. But there’s that. I don’t like that. But I don’t like the process. Right. I don’t like the fact that executive orders. Because now it’s just. And then it also diminishes our power on the global stage because they’re like, you guys are a bunch of idiots. You go from one extreme to the other, and we can’t trust what you say. Yeah. Here’s a way to look at it. Somebody might do, let’s say Trump does something you like, but the process, as you said, is something that if the other side did it, you’d be horrified by.

So the way to be a fair, neutral actor in the nest is to say, would I be okay if the other side were using this power to do what it is they’re doing? Even if you like the result, you have to think about how they’re getting there. And I think that’s something we really need to think about, because anything that Trump does. And I generally like the sentiments of, let’s say, going after pro Hamas civil terrorists who are trying to tear down our society. But is the process by which you do it okay? Because let’s say a new administration comes and says, oh, well, I like how Trump did that.

Let’s just go after religious Christians because we don’t like them and suddenly gets really scary. Well, and I also. One of the things I don’t like is, you know, it comes. I’m going to just say the Hamas thing is it’s okay to not like a state government. I mean, if you’re going to be. You should be allowed to protest. You should be allowed to criticize the government of Israel. And that’s different than criticizing a religion or. And the fact that they keep shoving it together is what is driving me nuts. It’s like, okay, I understand. You shouldn’t, like, discriminate against people, but don’t tell me I can’t criticize a government.

I mean, that. That goes against the American values. And don’t tell people they can’t protest. And so they’re co. Mingling the ideas, and that’s the problem. And so you should be able to protest. Now, if they’re going out there and they’re vandalizing and shutting down, they have to be doing a criminal activity to go after them. And I think it’s been muddled through political warfare. Yeah. And these pro Hamas protesters are engaging in criminal acts. They’re intimidating students and they’re spitting on them and they’re burning stuff and they are wreaking havoc and they’re doing what’s called civil terrorism.

They’re blocking traffic. All those things are illegal. It’s absolutely fine to criticize a government, the Israeli government, among any other government, but you can’t do these acts where you’re physically harassing people, intimidating people. I mean, just imagine the things they yell to Jews on Columbia’s campus that go back to Europe. I mean, if somebody were to yell, go back to Africa to an African American student, I mean, you know, the whole place would be in an uproar. And women go back in the kitchen and all kinds of things. Right. Go back to Mexico to. I mean, you can’t do those things.

You’re absolutely right. And that’s what these pro Hamas terrorists are doing to Jewish students on campus. And it’s completely unacceptable. But it gets mixed up together with these people saying, oh, well, I have a free speech right to criticize Israel. Well, yeah, you can criticize Israel, but you can’t have a tent encampment on private property, and you can’t disrupt classes, and you can’t tear Jewish stars off the necks of Jewish students who are walking through the quad. So the pro Hamas people are hiding behind the First Amendment to engage in behavior that is not First Amendment protected.

Yeah. I mean, because to me, I don’t like what’s going on in Gaza. I don’t like that whole situation. I don’t. I don’t like. I don’t like war. So I don’t care who’s doing it. I don’t like war. I think negotiating is better if there’s extremism, and sometimes it doesn’t work. But I think. I think in this situation, things are going too far. I think there’s been false flags. I think there’s been all these things. And. And so no side is clean. Right. No side is clean in this. And then they’re fighting like they’re both clean.

And it’s just, it bothers me. But we should be able to have the protests. And I don’t think. And that’s what I don’t like about Ukraine either, is he shut down the free press. We’re all about democracy and freedom. And then they shut down the pro. The press and then the press can’t go in there. It’s so full of crap. You can’t be fighting for freedom if you’re shutting off all the press. Yeah. You know, and we’ve had unfortunate instances in American history where they limited the press during times of war. In World War I, for example, Woodrow Wilson had something called the CPI, the Center for Public Integrity, which was really a propaganda arm.

The Committee on Public Integrity, which was a propaganda arm for the government and was trying to suppress any conversation about World War I that might not be to the government’s liking. And it also suppressed conversations about the flu, that terrible Spanish flu that killed so many people, including suppressing ideas that might have worked to mitigate the, the effects of the flu. And so the Wilson administration didn’t want people talking about it because they didn’t want them thinking about anything other than the war. So it was the COVID You know, they suppressed things that were legitimate and then they propagated things that weren’t.

And then I think more people died in the, or got injured in the long run because of their poor Paul. But that’s why freedom of speech is so important. So, okay, what do you think about. I mean, we can’t just complain about this stuff. Right. Because those of us who’ve been thinking about it are kind of horrified by these processes and that we see the disintegration of a basic rule of law. We see the disintegration of, you know, when you see free speech being disintegrated now, you can’t, you can’t. The best ideas are not floated up.

Universities are oppressing good ideas and only propagating. I feel like we’re in a medieval age of science being honest because the big institutions are, are only propping up cash cows. And then good, better ideas are never. So what do we do? How do we reclaim some of these things and not allow the tyrants to take over? What are some of your solutions? Because right now, from my perspective, it, I, I see this dichotomy of, of we’re kind of moving in a better direction. But I also saw, see the extremes, like what we talked about before, like it’s the worst and Best times at the same time.

So how do we, what are some solutions? So one is, I mean, take advantage of the platforms that we do have. I mean, having this conversation that you would never see in a mainstream media platform I think is valuable. Well, I like to look at it from the perspective of my field of presidential history. The academic historians can’t produce anything interesting on presidential history because academia is all about intersectionality and gender. And so they don’t want to look at presidential history. So the most interesting books of presidential history are people, are books written by people like David McCullough who doesn’t work at a university.

I mean, he’s dead now, but you know, so. So the best and most interesting presidential histories come from non academic historians who recognize that academia is not the place to have interesting explorations of these questions because of the ideological demands on the university and the lack of diversity, of intellectual diversity on the campuses. So you have to go outside the existing structure. So outside the university system is how I’ve been going around my presidential history. I’ve written my five books, all in a non academic academic way. Having again these conversations on different platforms. Using your free speech rights to express these ideas that don’t necessarily get an airing from mainstream institutions, I think is the first step.

Well, how are you accepted? I mean, are you able to get these ideas out and say, hey guys, let’s put the brakes on, let’s, let’s be wise. I mean, it’s almost like we threw away everything we knew about everything we’re taught and we’re acting like thugs. I mean, I honestly, I thought over the last five years I felt like I was in some medieval country in the way that we were being suppressed under Covid, in the way that, you know, like what we did in Afghanistan. And so I was like horrified by things that I was seeing.

I felt like at the guise of we love and care about everybody, they were doing the exact opposite and hurting everybody. Are they listening to you? Are they listening to more thoughtful, intelligent discussion? Or has the thugs just officially taken over? Well, I don’t feel like I could get a fair hearing on a university campus. That’s why I got my PhD 30 years ago. But I haven’t been teaching at universities until just this last year. I started teaching at Yeshiva University, which has a very different approach than the kind of mainstream so called elite universities. So I recognize that the universities would not be a welcoming home to people who think like me, look like me, act like me, But I have found ways to get my thoughts out There both through the amazing platforms like yours and podcasts where I do a lot of writing, my books.

I’m affiliated with think tanks rather than universities. I’ve been a fellow at the Ronald Reagan Institute. So you’ve got to find other ways of getting the word out than just depending on Harvard and the New York Times to give you a fair hearing because they’re not going to do it well and they’ve lost power. I mean, the New York Times and the media is like dying. Right? Because people are like, well, why do I. But see Google, who’s like, if you try to do a search. Back in 2015, I did a documentary on directed energy weapons.

It was amazing what I could find, right. I, I could figure out what, what the top directed energy weapons are the military are developing, where they used it, how it’s been, you know, how far along in the research it is, you know, where it’s been used in the world. I mean, it was amazing. And I was getting primary sources and everything. Now there would be no way I could do that. I might be able to do that with some of the AI, like chat GPT and stuff, but they still have restricted too. It’s a different world.

So, you know, New York Times is. And people are realizing that places like New York Times are. We don’t want that, we want real information. And they kind of killed themselves. Right. But the universities are still have a lot of power. So where do you see that going? Yeah, actually, I think chatgpt AI may be worse in terms of the way it configures its, its engine so as to get information that it wants you to hear. So I, I have a friend who had to write a Passover speech and he asked, can you give me, he asked AI, can you give me a Passover speech praising Joe Biden? And it did.

And then he asked, can you give me a praise Passover speech, Donald Trump? And it said, I’m sorry, I can’t do that. So AI, what AI did he use? Because I’ve been getting. This is chat GPT, but an earlier version. Okay. Because now I’ve been getting. And I’ll beat it up. And now it’s been good to me, but you have to almost train it to help you with things that aren’t. But it’s better now. I think there’s a lot of us have been using it, trying to train it, but go ahead. So AI search in a way is neutral.

I know Google can put its thumb on the scale, but if you are specific enough in your Search request. You can probably get what you want. I would tell you you cannot get what I did for the directed energy website. Again, it depends how specific. Almost impossible, but go ahead. But AI, I think the, the fix is in even more than in traditional search. And so I, I am a little worried about hey, how AI is going to govern the conversation. Well and AI is more sophisticated so it could, it can manipulate you in a more easy way versus being an objective of spit out of propaganda.

It will do it in a way that makes you feel like it’s better. Yeah. And also don’t trust the facts on AI. Early on I asked Chat GPT to write an article for me about, you know, my thing which is presidents and something and it did this thing and it seemed like an interesting article but every fact was wrong when I fact checked it. So I had to go through debunk every fact and then I had to start the article from scratch anyway and do it by myself. Well, since you’re on the forefront of what’s going on geopolitically and worldwide, what would you say some of the, what are some of the biggest things that you see going on today that worries you? My number one worry literally keeps me up at night is $37 trillion in debt.

We are in so much debt that there is going to be an economic collapse of the US at some point. I don’t know when it’s going to be, but it is. The single most predictable disaster we face is an economic collapse based on our unsustainable levels of debt. And our other countries, when they see us flailing and in trouble, they’re not going to say, hey, we’re going to come rescue you. They’re going to just kind of laugh and say, well, it was nice knowing you. So I really worry about that. Well, the dollar is the reset of the dollar and the, the, the economic warfare that’s happening is real.

Yeah, absolutely. So, so that’s a concern. Obviously bioweapons, you know, the thing that happened with COVID with the which you know, I’m pretty convinced was a lab leak and there are countries that are developing very dangerous pathogens that we may not have the ability to respond to. So that, that worries me. Some bad folks getting hold of a nuclear weapon, that’s something I think about just suppression of free speech in general with the rise of these platforms and AI will give bad actors an ability to have far more control. But that said, I take heart in the words of Irving Kristol, who’s one of my intellectual heroes, he says he’s short term pessimistic, long term optimistic.

So, yeah, we have some real challenges that we’re facing, but overall, the arc and things in humanity has been better. I mean, if you look just the last 25 years, the development of new technologies to make things so much better in our lives, the ability of us to have this conversation, the ability for me to drive somewhere without having to have a map in my lap looking down the whole time and getting lost. The ability to get glasses made in an hour if I lose my glasses. When I was a kid, I went to Florida, lost my glasses, and I was blind for three days until I could get a new pair.

So there’s so many technological improvements that we can take advantage of and can make our lives so much better. We just have to make sure that we channel the technology in a way that it doesn’t become our oppressor. What about the true conspiracy theories that are actually true? Because so many things, you know, as an investigative journalist, I am horrified that so much of the conspiracy theories that they, the CIA and others have said are conspiracy theories are conspiracy theories. They’re like, this is really happening. This is really true. Do you think that the government will.

And I think this current administration is sort of trying. I don’t know if it’s lip service or if they really are trying. Do you think that we will have a. Come to Jesus as a country and say, okay, there are goofball stuff and then there’s the major. So much of this is real. Do you think we’ll come to grips with, you know, the. Our history being so different than it really is? You know, ancient history and different. And conspiracy theory, what the government’s really been involved in and people have been. It’s been whitewashed. Do you think we will grow up and mature and be able to take in the real facts and be able to build off of that and be better for it? Yeah.

Well, first, let me just start with when you mentioned come to Jesus moment. It reminded me of a great story in the 1973 Yom Kippur War when Henry Kissinger is having a fight with Simcha Dinitz, who is the Israeli ambassador to the US And Kissinger is trying to get Dinitz to have Israel stop its assault on the Egyptian Third army, which was surrounded in the Sinai. And he said, we can’t destroy that army because it would end Kissinger’s vision for peace in the Middle East. And Kissinger says to Dennis, Jesus Christ, don’t you understand how important this is? And Dennis, who is the Israeli ambassador, said, perhaps I’d understand it better if you cited a different prophet.

Oh, geez. It’s a great story, but in any event. But you know what I mean. I mean, of course I know what you mean. I just like the story. But, yeah, I think we can get to a place where there’s a greater reverence for history and an understanding of what our precursors are. Look, that’s why I’m a historian. I focused. I happen to love the presidency, but there’s so many great things to study. And one of the best lectures I ever heard. When I was in the White House, we had this series where we had the smartest intellectuals come in and talk to us.

And Victor Davis Hansen came and he talked about the Greek order of battle. It sounds boring, right? And we talk about the hoplites and the formations they had and the greaves that. Which were the. The type of armor they had on their legs to protect their legs, because, you know, the shield didn’t protect below the knee. And he said that this stuff is important to understand because we have to understand where we came from. And the universities right now are so caught up looking at their belly buttons and saying, you know, they’re studying, you know, gender studies or African American studies or Hispanic studies without actually looking what are the underpinnings of Western civilization? And it is that those underpinnings, the things that we’ve built on and accreted over and made improvements over thousands of years, that are really what govern our system, that would allow us to have the rule of law and respect for authority while still able to question authority, and gives us an amazing backstory of literature and art.

And all those things have made us and brought us to this moment today. And if we lose sight of them by just focusing on our grievances and our differences, we won’t be able to do what Ronald Reagan understood, which he would always say in his speeches. Liberty binds us together. The reason we are free in this country, the reason this country has been so successful, is not because we’re one race or one gender or one ideology. We’re not. But we all have this belief in liberty, and it’s ordered liberty that is managed by a government with separation of powers and a constitutional system that has allowed Americans to thrive and to innovate and to persevere.

Yeah. But I would even take that farther and say that our history almost blow it out of the water and say that there’s history that has been shunned by universities, by mainstream, that is really cool. That would change our understanding of who we are. And we gotta, we gotta blow past all those, those constraints and say, let’s dive in. Let’s. It’s scary, but let’s dive in and let’s look at. Was there ancient civilizations that were more advanced than us? I don’t know. I mean, maybe there’s some more in maybe. That’s pretty cool, right? What does this all mean? And I think we, with our new technology, we have the ability to see under the earth and see that there’s pyramids everywhere, you know, all these things.

So it’s just we’re in a new time where we, we have to grow up and be more mature. And the universities are almost, are lagging behind right now. Well, the universities just don’t allow free discussion. I mean, for all they’re talking about diversity, they have no interest or belief in intellectual diversity. And when you have just one already thought, then you’re going to have suppression of ideas and you’re not going to have innovation, you’re not going to have interesting exploration. So, yeah, we do have to break the university model, but rethink the university model as it stands now, rethinking the university model, I think is imperative right now for us to start to advance again.

Maybe it had a place at one point and it got us to a certain point. Now it’s stifling us and holding us back. I agree. Look, I went to Cornell University. I was a minority in that. I was conservative. Most of the people were liberal. But we were able to have the conversation. We were able to agree, disagree, fight, and I was fine. My professors didn’t hold it against me. My classmates didn’t shun me. I wasn’t banned from getting recommendations to either work or other academic endeavors. But today I wouldn’t let my kids go to Cornell or any of these schools because of what the consequences would be if they believe differently.

And I think that’s a real problem. It is a problem. Well, thank you so much. Where can people follow you, buy your books and learn more about you? So Ebby Troy is my Twitter feed. And my thing is I tweet interesting quotes. I’m not starting flame wars with anybody. I just, I see something interesting when I read and I read a lot of. And I tweet interesting quotes at Tevytroy. You go to my website tevytroy.org where I have all my articles. I also have these five books on presidential history, most recently the Power and the Money.

Those are available at Amazon, Barnes, and noble and wherever fine books are sold. Okay. Thank you so much for joining the program. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. This is a blast. Sa Sam.
[tr:tra].