The Research Redefining Death Consciousness and Reincarnation

➡ Dr. James Matlock, a leading reincarnation researcher, believes that consciousness carries memory across lives. He has studied thousands of children who show signs of reincarnation, such as birthmarks, memories of past lives, and personality traits matching their previous identities. His research, which has won awards, is gaining acceptance in the West and is seen as a field at the edge of innovation. He also discusses the importance of understanding our unique human qualities, such as consciousness and spirituality, in a world increasingly dominated by artificial intelligence.
➡ The text discusses the speaker’s journey from studying psychology to researching reincarnation. The speaker was initially interested in psychology but became skeptical of behaviorism, which suggests that all human behavior is conditioned by the environment. The speaker then started reading about reincarnation and became involved in academic parapsychology, specifically reincarnation research. The speaker found it profound that young children could recall past lives, including details unknown to their families, and that their personalities and behaviors aligned with those of their past lives.
➡ A man shares his daughter’s unusual memories, which he believes may be from a past life. His daughter, who is bilingual, spoke about riding motorcycles and a pink farm, which her parents had seen before she was born. The man believes that children should not be encouraged to remember these past life memories, especially if they are traumatic. He also mentions his involvement in a large Facebook group where people share similar experiences and discuss research on the topic.
➡ The text discusses the importance of open-mindedness in science, emphasizing that even seemingly strange or unproven ideas should not be dismissed without proper investigation. It highlights the evolution of scientific understanding, using the acceptance of plate tectonics as an example. The text also explores the concept of consciousness, suggesting that it may not be limited to humans or even complex organisms. Finally, it warns of the potential dangers of unchecked technological advancement, particularly in the fields of artificial intelligence and cellular biology.
➡ The text discusses the concept of consciousness, its possible connection to reincarnation, and its potential existence before life itself. It also explores the idea that consciousness, or what some might call the soul, could be separate from the physical body. The text suggests that these ideas can be studied scientifically, not just philosophically, and that advancements in quantum physics could provide the tools for such studies. The author also mentions his work on the Psi Encyclopedia and his book, “Signs of Reincarnation.”
➡ The speaker emphasizes the importance of personal experiences in understanding reincarnation, rather than relying on hypnosis. They highlight that both children and adults have these experiences, which are shared through various platforms like a Facebook page and a book. These experiences, often involving children talking about past lives, are compelling and cannot be easily dismissed.

Science isn’t about the laboratory so much. Science is about studying things systematically, right. And assessing beliefs and seeing whether they’re right. And over time, I mean, there’s so many things that, that were found that we believe for a long time that we’ve later found, you know, aren’t right. I mean, you know, the example I like to use because it happened in my lifetime is plate tectonics in geology. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. And please subscribe below and subscribe. Think about joining my substack@SarahWestAll substack.com or my newsletter. You can sign up for that as well@Sarah Westall.com and remember to give a thumbs up and to subscribe on the platform that you’re watching.

Welcome to Business Game Changers and the Thrive Hour. I’m Sarah westall. I have Dr. James Matlock coming to the program. He is a parapsychology researcher that focuses on reincarnation and he takes it very seriously. There’s a whole field of study that is showing that these young children are showing signs of reincarnation from this standpoint of they have birthmarks, they have memories of their past lives, they have different signs, they have whole personality traits that match the person that they were before. And he talks about this field, the study of thousands of kids that they’ve looked at and they were able to trace it back to their past life and show that what they’re seeing is proven out.

And he believes that it’s a, it’s consciousness and explains his theory of consciousness. But before I get into that, I got to give you his bio. James Matlock Dr. James Matlock is an American anthropologist and leading reincarnation researcher. He combines cross cultural comparison, case investigation and theory theory building into a single body of work drawing on tribal traditions, children’s causes and broader survival research. He argues that consciousness carries memory and disposition across lives. He’s the editor of Psy Encyclopedia, which has over 750 research articles. I Best I guess is based out of England or Europe. And he also has a Facebook page that has, I think it has almost 400,000 members.

And people are talking about their own experiences and their kids that have had experiences, it’s not their own, maybe their own if they remember it. We talk about whether you remember as it as you become an adult. Most of the experiences are the memories fade as children get older. He also won a 2021 Parapsychology association book award for his comprehensive overview of reincarnation research Signs of Reincarnation Exploring beliefs, cases and theory published in 2019. So he published a lot of different reincarnation cases and analyzed it. He’s a scientist. He analyzed it as a science and took in a lot of these other cases from around the world.

Most of these cases happen in the east because they’re more accepted, they believe in it. So when they see it, they identify it and they’re more willing to identify it. In the west they we just, we’re opening up the idea that it’s real is, is starting to penetrate the west and we talk about that too. The cultural differences and we’re the sciences. How does quantum physics tie in? It’s a fascinating discussion. He asked me how could a, a show like yours that does business and you know, I do hard finance, I do hard geopolitical on and the edge of innovation.

How does that this topic, you know, my thrive hour on Sundays, my thrive hours once a week. How does it even tie in to, to the other stuff that I do? The reason is, is because this is what makes us different. I think this is the edge of innovation really the edge of understanding of who we are. As science is catching up to have tools to define and help us understand ourselves. This too is an area at the edge of change as we’re, as we’re starting to define who we are. And it also makes us different than AI, different than robotics and richer in this way.

And we can do things that AI can’t do because of this area. And we’re having, we’re developing the tools to understand it. That’s why I see it on the edge of change and the edge of innovation. And it helps us thrive and be richer because of that. And so it kind of meets two different goals of mine is how do, how do humans thrive? But also it’s al itself is on the edge of innovation and knowledge. So and that’s what my show is about. So that’s why we’re doing this. Okay, before we get into that, I want to remind you about Ironhawk Financial.

You can go to sw hawk.com they invest in different financial portfolios and avenues so that you use instead of paying taxes, you’re using that 50% you usually pay every year as investment. And so can you imagine instead of paying that much in taxes, you put it in different tax protected vehicles of investments and year after year you are investing that money and it’s tax free. And they know how to do this. And this is what all the wealthy does. I mean this is beyond just IRAs that you know, Roth IRAs and things these are different strategies to really maximize your investments.

And it’s amazing how much more you will earn over the lifetime of an investment, especially if you do it for your grandkids or your kids and you’re young. Oh my gosh, the life of it is so much more than almost everybody does except the wealthy. Just inquire and I think that you will be happy. Go to sw hawk.com and you can learn about different investment vehicles that are better for you that will yield much higher returns. SW Hawk.com okay, let’s get into this wonderful show with Dr. James Matlock about reincarnation and the study of consciousness. Hi, Jim.

Welcome to the program. Hi. Very good to be here. I’m really curious as to how this will go. Well, it’s going to go good. Done one for a business side before? Well, yeah, I do Thrive shows on Sunday nights and once a week and so I do a lot of hardcore finance shows on Fridays and I do geopolitics and more bigger business type or more like the Edge of Technology and geopolitics during the week. And, but my Thrive show is we get into a lot of consciousness and where humans are going because, and the reason why, because I haven’t said this to listeners for a while, the reason why it’s so important is how do we, how does humanity compete with AI as innovation starts going? How, how are we different and, and how are we changing? It’s the edge of change to an understanding of who we are.

And what makes us different than AI is the fact that we have intuition and that we, we have a different side to us and we have spirituality and we have all these things that make us so rich and great. And we, I think the exploration of that area is going to produce innovation that’s unique and different, but that’s unique to humans and that makes us, and, and then we can learn how to thrive in different ways that we’ve been deprived from for decades. That’s the concept behind it. And I, and I think people appreciate it. Yeah.

So you, you, you have done a lot of research in reincarnation, which is fascinating because, you know, I, I just talked to somebody the other day and, and I was talking about intuition and, and things and he says there’s just no proof to it. And I said, no, there’s a lot of proof. It’s just not really talked about. And there’s a lot of professionals and universities and people over the years who have taken this really seriously. And you’re one of them. Can you talk about your Background a little bit, sure. Let me say something general first.

This is. I don’t think of this as intuition so much as maybe spirituality, we want to call it. Right. And consciousness. You mentioned consciousness before and. Yeah, there is this materialist idea that consciousness is something that’s generated by the brain. And if you buy into that, then reincarnation, which is what I’m going to be talking about, obviously is impossible. But any sort of survival of death is impossible. Right. If you assume that consciousness is generated by the brain, you have to get to the point where consciousness is separate from the brain. Right. To even open that door.

But more and more, you’re quite right. I mean, more and more scientists, scholars from various disciplines are beginning to crack open that door to realize that consciousness isn’t. Is something that really cannot easily reduce to the brain. And I can go into that more and more in depth when I say that. But, you know, now, to back up and give you. Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. Back up and give me, like, your background and what you’ve done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My background, how I got into this and all that. So my first choice of career was to be a creative writer.

I. I grew up wanting to be a writer. I can remember still dictating stories to my mother before I was able to write them myself. I mean, I, you know, that was that young. And I held on to this idea all the way through college. I majored in English and came close to double majoring in psychology because I thought, you know, I wanted to write about people, right? I mean, so psychology seems, you know, the natural thing there. But I was, I was at Emory, and Emory at that time, the psychology department was still strongly behaviorist.

Now, what that means is that B.F. skinner, you know, and the idea that everything about the human being is conditioned by the environment or, you know, whatever, you know, everything is conditioned, right? There’s no. There’s no separate consciousness. There’s no experience, really. I mean, he wasn’t interested in experience. He was just interested in this mechanistic way of being. And I recall I was getting really skeptical of this by the time I finished school. And I remember asking my mother, do babies have personalities? Because this was my test. And she said, yes, babies do have personalities, and they just get stronger as they get older.

And that was it. I mean, because that was something that behaviorism did not at all predict. Because according to behaviorism, personality was something that should have been, know. Acquired through life, right? Every mother can tell you a baby comes out with a personality. Every. And now that I’m a father. I can see that perfectly clearly. Yeah, Any mother can tell you that. Every father can too. Yeah. Skinner was your mother. I don’t know if he was a father, but I don’t know where he got this idea. And he worked with animals primarily, but. And now finally.

Biologists are coming to appreciate that animals are consciousness too. And this is something again, anybody who has a pet, anybody who lives with an animal, continue. That animal is as conscious as we are. But for people coming out of the behavior school, no. Well, that’s what, and that’s what’s so frustrating about some of this education. You know, it needs to evolve, it needs to stop being a gateway, you know, gatekeeping uncertain. These are the only ways you can think about things. That kind of stuff. It needs to evolve, it needs to mature. I think the Internet’s helping it in that way.

But you have been doing some research or a lot of research in reincarnation. What got you into that? To me, so fascinating, right. So I’m building up to how I got there. Okay. So this was in the 70s and this is new age time. New age writing was beginning to come, come out. And so that’s what I started reading is I put behaviorism behind. I started reading that stuff and that’s what led me to the reincarnation. Right, okay. Yeah. So I got there around 1980 and that when I started reading that I realized that there is serious research being done on this in parapsychology.

Parapsychology is sort of a term. It’s gotten co opted by popular sphere and we now, you know, it has sort of a bad, you know, connotation to it, you know, in many circles. But actually it’s. There is an academic, a university based discipline. Compare psychology. Okay. And once I realized that there was that I, you know, I gravitated towards that. I got involved with it since the mid-80s, I’ve been involved with this professionally with the academic parapsychology and specifically the reincarnation research that was being done out of UVA by Ian Stevenson. Okay. And what would you say is the most profound that, you know, finding that you’ve had with reincarnation in your experience? I’m sorry, I didn’t quite catch that.

What is profound finding? Like what was the most surprising? Like, wow, this is, this is incredible. Yeah, I, you know, it was reading Stevenson’s work and you know, and one of his first books, his first book on this, 20 cases suggestive of Reincarnation is called. And just starting to think, hey, There might be something to this. Right. And it was because of the psychology of it, because it wasn’t so much that there were kids who were saying things that they could not have known. I mean, I’m talking about really young kids, 2, 3 years old, sometimes younger than that, coming out with stuff that was totally unknown even to their families at the time.

They talked about these things, but turned out to be correct. And it was more than that. And this is what astonished Stevenson, too, when he went to India and Sri Lanka, and it’s now Sri Lanka, Ceylon, in 1961, and started investigating these things in the field. And when he went in, from his reading, his background reading, he thought he was going to encounter these kids that just had these memories. Right. What he found was that it’s much larger than that. The kids, yes. Have these memories, but they have memories that check out. I know. That’s what’s incredible.

I know. And the past lives for these kids in India and Ceylon, Sri Lanka, were usually lived just a few months, a few years before their births. So it wasn’t a long period of time. It was something. It was a short period. And how old were the. How old were the children that typically had two, two or three years old? I mean, these are young kids. Okay. So by the time Stevenson got to most of these cases, the kids were very passionate about wanting to go back to their previous families. Right. And the parents often are sort of reluctant to do that.

I mean, even in India, where there is this, the cultural belief in it. Right. But eventually, they sort of give in. I mean, the kids say. They give their previous names, they say where they lived. They give enough details that the previous families actually can be traced. Okay. And what happens when they meet those previous. Yeah, and this is what I’m leading up to. And what happens is, you know, usually the families accept them, and the kids go there. They recognize the places, they recognize people. They ask about the changes. Right. That have happened. But what is most extraordinary about this is it turns out their personalities line up with the previous personalities.

Their behaviors line up. So it’s a whole lot more than just these memories. It’s all of the psychological stuff which carries over to. And when I started reading these cases, that’s what struck me. You asked me what is the most profound thing was that that’s a lot more than just memories. Were these. Were these kids. Were these kids. Did they d. Early? Well, the lives that they’re remembering. Yes. Are for people who died, right? Yeah. But did they die early? Were they, like children themselves? That died or were. Could they have been old or two that died and they were now in a new body at age 2 or 3? Right.

Well, you know, Stevenson went on for this research for the rest of his life. Yeah, for the next 40 years. And he investigated probably over 2,500 cases like this and published several hundred of them. And of those cases, a few of them, yes. Were natural deaths in old age. Some proportion of them, the kids died. The kids remembering lives of children who died, maybe of disease early on. The majority of them were deaths, you know, somewhere between that. Somewhere between early years and old age. And they were killed in a variety of different ways. It was a whole spectrum.

Total spectrum. Right. Can you imagine being the family. All of a sudden you. You see this little kid and they remember all these things and the same personality that would have been such a. An incredible emotional experience. Yeah, all the way around. I mean, all the way around. I mean, even when in a culture like India where they’re sort of prepared for this. Right. They’re not so much prepared for these kids having these memories. I can’t even imagine. Okay, so you started getting into this. How many have you researched yourself? How many have I studied myself? Yeah.

Yeah. At this point, you know, I haven’t added them up. A few dozen, you know. Okay. Okay. You know, in nothing like what Stevenson did, because for most of my career, I was sort of an analyst. I mean, I was involved with this, but I was writing papers, doing studies, secondary studies, and it was all only after I retired. I’m 72 now, so I don’t know. I mean, it’s. I. One of my books was. It was 2019, and it was around that time, shortly before that, that I really began investigating cases. Now I do. Now I investigate cases.

So I don’t have as many as Steven said. That’s okay. But even. Even just a few of them experiencing just. And I know you’ve done dozens, but even personally experiencing just a few, I would be changed. I mean, just experiencing that. And did you. Did you accompany them ever to meet their previous family? Well, I want to tell you, my daughter at age 3, came out with some of these memories. Oh, wow. Okay. Right. And when you have a daughter, I mean, I learned so much from her. You know, you can. When you go out and interview a kid, I mean, you know, you’re.

You know, you don’t know, you know, like, you know. Charles, right? Yeah. And so I learned a lot from her about the experience of these memories and things. Now, hers is what we called an Unsolved case in that we didn’t identify the person that she was talking about, but we have a pretty good idea who it was. What was her situation? What do you know? Or are you willing to share it? Sure, she doesn’t mind if I share it. The first thing she said, we were driving. If you could imagine, you know, I’m driving, right? You know, my daughter comes out with this.

She says, daddy, do you like to write on motos? Her mother is Peruvian and so she’s bilingual. Moto is the Spanish word or short form for moticleta. Motorcycle. I do not. I. I’m not a motorcycle rider. And I said, no, honey, I don’t. They scare me. And she said, you have to hold on real tight. I mean, she said this very earnestly. You have to hold on real tight, right? This three year old kid. And I said, honey, when have you ridden on a motorcycle? Was it in Lima? Because her mother would take her back to Peru and every winter and I was working, so I didn’t accompany them.

So there were times, you know, I wasn’t with her all the time. And she said, no, it was a long time ago, before I came to UN Mavi. So she had figured out on her own what this was about. Wow, okay. At three, you know, and obviously she had had these, these memories before she even talked about them long enough to figure this out. And so she went on talking about this. And this is when you have to imagine me driving. The light changes and of course I have to move. My daughter came out with this.

But it turned out that what she was remembering was a pink farm. And she said this at the time, she was amused. Obviously, even at 3, she’s realizing this is so extraordinary. She said everything was pink. Huh. And did you find a place that was pink? Here is the thing. About a year before she was conceived, her mother and I had been driving up I81. We were living in Washington at the time. We were driving up Interstate 81 and we passed a pink farm. Everything we could see. The perimeter fence was pink, all of the buildings were painted pink.

And we got back to D.C. and we just talked about it. We talked about it for weeks and made such an impression on us. And here’s our daughter talking about the pink farm. So this is why I say we think maybe we know what it was, but we’ve never been back there. And why didn’t I take her back to this place? And it’s now, the next time I drove it, it wasn’t pink anymore and it’s now a KOA campground. But we could probably go back and find somebody. It hadn’t been that long ago. We could probably find somebody who recalls this.

Why haven’t I done that? Because I don’t think that it is good to encourage the children to remember these things. If they come out with memories, I think parents should listen and not dismiss them. Why don’t you think it’s. Why don’t you think it’s good? Because a lot of now, not with her case, but in many of these cases, the things that they remembered are not very nice. They’re traumatic things. Do you think that’s why they’re remembering it? Because it’s traumatic? Yeah, I do. I think in many cases it’s why they’re remembering it, that these are more memorable things.

They just forcing their way into their conscious awareness, but they. Because they can interfere with the kids in various ways. And even if they’re nicer memories, if they remember people, you know, the emotions go along with that. Right? They. This attachment to the previous life. And as a parent, that’s the last thing you want to encourage, right? Your responsibility is to help your child adjust to the present life. That’s right. Yeah. Right. So and so go ahead. Yeah, no, no, keep going. So, yeah, so that’s why I’m just. Just to finish the thought. That’s why I discourage, you know, asking these kids questions.

But you do want to honor them. You don’t want, you know, make them feel like, hey, this is just crazy because they have these memories. They feel that they’re accurate. They feel it’s real. It is to them. It’s real to them. Now, how old are they before they. Kids grow out of this? Right. In general, even the ones that are extreme, or do some of them keep it their whole life if it’s really traumatic? Yeah, that’s a really good question. And as we’ve learned more, we’ve changed our mind about that. Stevenson, who died in 2007, formed the idea fairly early that almost all children had their memories fade by age 8 or so.

Okay. Now, my daughter remembered her until she was 12, and then they faded at 12. We know now that a good number of them, not a majority, still a minority, but a good number, recall memories on into adulthood. And if they recall things, you know, past the teen years, they will remember them for life. Many of you have heard of me talking about my weight loss journey and how I’ve lost over 25 pounds with peptides, specifically with retatrutide. Retatrutide. Is a next generation GLP1. It’s by far the most effective weight loss peptide on the market. By activating three hormone receptors simultaneously, which not only suppresses appetite, but actively works to burn fat.

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Well, and it’s because they remember it as an adult, as a teen, then it’s that me. If they know something or learn something as a teenager, then they keep thinking about it, which reinforces the memory, whereas a kid doesn’t know to do that. I think, I think there’s a process behind that. I’m not articulating what I’m saying very well, but. Okay, so now in India and the east, they believe like Buddhists believe in reincarnation. We don’t. Our religious traditions. I know if you look at some of the, you know, depending on what you are, Christianity, some of the Christian early writings and stuff do talk about some of this.

But in general, Western culture doesn’t really acknowledge it like the east does. So do you. Do you find this happening more in the east only because they recognize it? Well, you know, this is a very, very interesting question too. Stevenson did most of his interview studies in Asia because this is where the most profound cases were. But he also did some in Europe and the States and he had the impression that these memories are much more common than we realize. I agree with him. And it’s probably because the people in India and the east will flag it.

They’re easier to find here. People just kind of write it off. Well, that’s right. I mean, and that’s. That’s, I think, a large part of it. Now what has changed big time is social media. Because with social media, people can share these experiences. If somebody shares them, somebody else comes in, recognizes it, shares their experience, and it just snowballs from there. I have a Facebook group which has gotten huge. How big is it? Huh? How big is it? I. Let me check and tell you exactly. Now, just one moment. It’s because so many People are interested in this, in this reality, because if reincarnation happens, that means our understanding of what we are, at least in the west, is different.

But keep going. So we now. Yeah, I’ll get to all those things. We now have389,700 members. Wow. It’s really growing. Yep. Over 10 years now. The reason I started this group 10 years ago was because there were already some groups on there, and I was seeing that there were many more of these memories than I realized, and I wanted to communicate the research people were sharing these memories, but there was very little awareness over the research that Stevenson had did that I was doing. Right. And so I started the group to share the research. So it’s called Experiences and Belief.

People share their experiences and we talk about. It’s called Experiences and Research. My book is Experiences and Belief. You know, and so we come in and we, you know, we take the experiences and then explain how they relate to the research. Right. And I think that’s one reason why it’s gotten so large, is we take it seriously. But it’s also more grounded than many of these groups are. Yeah. And I think that’s what people need to see is there’s some goofiness on the Internet. And if you see that there’s serious study in this, it shows the reality.

There’s a lot of these. Well, I can go in it. It’s fascinating that there’s real data behind this. And what does it say about who we are right now? It. Does it? Yeah, go ahead. Say that’s a profound question. Yeah, I mean, that’s it. What does it say about who we are? You know, and, you know, science changes. I mean, we’re still. We’re getting people now who are saying, hey, this. This idea that consciousness is generated by the brain, you know, it has to be wrong. Right. But if you think about it, I mean, science isn’t about the laboratory so much.

Science is about studying things systematically. Right. And assessing beliefs and seeing whether they’re right. And over time, I mean, there’s so many things that. That were found, that we believed for a long time that were later found, you know, aren’t right. I mean, you know, the example I like to use, because it happened in my lifetime, is plate tectonics in geology. I remember in junior high school reading the Weekly Reader about continental drift and it explaining that continental drift was maybe not a super science. It was just at that point, this was in the 60s, that they’re beginning to realize that it’s not a science.

Right. They’re beginning to understand the mechanisms of plate tectonics nowadays. It’s just totally accepted. Yeah. And that’s so much of the science now. There’s kind of an elitism with science. And instead of, hey, science is a study of what is. That’s what I would say. Science is a study of what is. And it’s, you don’t, you don’t cut it off. If you see a fact and you see, you see evidence of something, I always say, put it on the shelf, Put it on the shelf. Put it on a shelf. Don’t cut it out and say it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit your paradigm.

That’s not good science. That’s not good science. And the incredible thing to me is psychology. So much of psychology, even though it’s gotten away from the behavior or something, so much psychology is not yet interested in experiences. Now there are schools of psychology that are. Right, but, but, but predominantly psychology puts off this sort of stuff and doesn’t really get into the experiences like my daughters or any of these other kids. And I keep asking, you know, why is that? These are experiences that people have. Why can’t we study them? You know, it’s, it’s again, they’re, they’re writing it off as not real and ignoring data points.

And you can’t ignore data points if you’re a serious scientist. It just, it doesn’t. You, you might, it might be inconvenient. You could put it on the shelf and say, it doesn’t make sense to me. But to erase it is, is just not good science. That’s why I, I’m so interested in this, this area, because I think it’s like I said, and it’s, I look at this area as broader probably than what you, you’re doing because you’re doing more. The conscious. I look at everything that’s not. That, that’s not materialistic, you know, that’s more. Yeah. And there’s so much, it’s such a rich area and AI.

And I have a systems, I’m a systems engineer. Right. So I come out of that arena. Yeah. Very concrete. Right. And, and so I’m like, wait a minute. This, there’s so much more to this world that is not the zeros and ones. Everything that, that can eventually be zeros and ones. Honestly, that can be too. But you can’t ignore it. You can’t ignore those things because then we’re ignoring a big part of who we are and it’s what makes us different than AI. And robotics. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And. And richer, frankly. Absolutely richer. Yeah, yeah.

And, and why can’t we? I mean, but gradually people are people. Scientists, academics are waking up to this. And here I want to come back to the animals because this is part of what’s doing it. Finally, biologists know, the scientists are waking up to animals of consciousness. And they have found, as they begin to really look at this, they have found, and this is astonishing, consciousness seems to go all the way back down. Even single celled organisms, bacteria. I don’t know how you do these experiments. I mean, this isn’t my area at all. But can learn.

That’s really incredible. Fungi learn. It’s not just bacteria, it’s all kingdoms of life. Well, and consciousness. And consciousness has an energy, right? There’s an energy to it. Well, I don’t like to call it energy because energy sort of reduces it to something physical. Okay. I think it’s own, I think consciousness is its own thing. I think that’s what we’re going to eventually accept. Okay, I have to think about that. Yeah, but we can call it energy if we want. That’s okay. No, you can call it whatever. It’s always interesting. People do refer to it as energy, but I’m just pointing out we need to think of it.

If we think of it as energy, it needs to be a very loose sort of concept of what energy is. Right, sure, yeah. No, I love people coming and making me think about things from a different perspective, saying, okay, it’s not. There’s going to be a new things besides energy. I’m like, okay, I haven’t thought about it like that yet. So, okay, I have to think about it. But yeah, so I, you know, the University of Minnesota just came. I’ve been talking about this a lot ever since I heard about it. I can’t stop thinking about it.

They came up with a single cell organism. They’ve developed a one cell organism that they can self replicate and grow organs and everything else. And we’re, we’re going. I don’t, I don’t know what I think about all this stuff yet. I’m still framing in my mind because I’ve just thought about it for a week here. That’s going to profoundly change everything. Yes. Yeah, it will. And we don’t yet know how. No. And, and we don’t know. We have to be careful. The. I always say the adults in the room need to get off the couch. And I’m talking immature adult people who are mature thinkers.

Why is when I say adults. I’m talking not just because you’re physically an adult. You need to be wise adult and able to be a steward of humanity type adult. Need to get off the couch and start participating and because there’s some pretty interesting technological innovations coming down the pike here. Yeah, I mean, we definitely, you know, more and more, I think about how in 2001 Space Odyssey, you know, I mean, how it was this was. He was AI before there was AI, Right. Yeah. You know, and he starts taking things out on the humans. Right.

He like begins to take control. Just like we’re worried about now, you know, AI, you know, getting away from us. Right. And destroying humanity or whatever. I hope that will never happen. I hope we’ll finally wake up and put the controls in place to keep it from happening and. And how was brought down, you know, before it happened. But anyway, so how. You know, I keep thinking about that. You know, he’s the perfect. I don’t know, not metaphor isn’t quite the right thing, but he’s the perfect symbol for what we’re discussing now in terms of the issues of AI.

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Everyone’s going to be talking about that and how does that connect with AI? And it is a profound time that we’re living in and it’s incredible, but that’s why I think. And people like, why are you talking about all this spiritual stuff? And because I think it’s a big port. It’s a big part of this. I think we can’t lose touch of this. This is really important for as we move forward to understanding this element of ourselves and to understand the difference, like you’re pointing out the difference between a human consciousness and whatever is going on with AI which will always be artific, artificial.

Right. There’s something qualitatively different there. Absolutely. And. And the reincarnation aspect is another. I don’t know how it ties in. It’s like it’s an element on my shelf, if you will, that I’m exploring. Right. What is this? And how does this relate to what we are? Well, I think it’s central to it, frankly. One of the things that I had to decide, and I also teach a course on reincarnation, one thing I had to decide in teaching, that is when I think about all this stuff and one of the questions was, when did reincarnation begin? The only thing that really makes sense to me is that it began when life began.

That makes sense to me. Although there’s a chicken and the egg issue there. Right. Well, is there? You see, because maybe consciousness pre existed life. Maybe this gets into uncomfortable issues that seem to people, many people, to be theological issues. But just one moment. I’m in an interview. You know what? If. If you need to just take a quick second here to deal with something, I can. We can cut this. No, that’s fine. It was just. Yeah, yeah, she just came down. It’s fine. I guess you can edit this. Right. So the darn family that comes in and asks you a question.

I should have told them before I had this interview anyway. All right, so get me back on track here. What was I saying? We were talking about consciousness and getting into the divine and how it predates consciousness. Predates life. Possibly. Yeah, possibly. I mean, and I. It’s the only thing that really makes sense. I mean, to me. I mean that philosophically, I mean, idealist is what they call it. I don’t know why it’s called idealism, but idealism is the opposite of materialism. Materialism says that everything starts with the material, with the physical. Idealism is the opposite and says everything starts with consciousness.

Right. And the material is a creation of consciousness. Now, it’s sort of weird. How do you get to that? But there are people working on. I mean, philosophers and so forth are beginning to think along these lines more and more. And how consciousness could actually bring into. You know, Create some sort of physical reality. Right. You know, and there’s again, there’s sort of philosophical, theoretical thinking about how consciousness could get involved with reincarnation. Right. I mean, there are a lot of people who say, you know, looking at evolution, the evolution of life, saying, look, this can’t be by chance.

That it seems to be directed somehow. And that plays into this too well. And I think. I don’t know, quantum physics, our understanding of who we are, the understanding of what material is, which is frequency and physics, understanding that science and how this ties into consciousness. And I mean, it gets pretty abstract and pretty advanced. But they’re thinking about this stuff, you know, they are. And this was one of the. Actually, I’m glad you said that, because this is actually one of the major clues that I had, you know, to what. To how I think about this.

Henry Stapp, I mean, and some of your viewers may know who he is, a quantum physicist, theoretical physicist, and who. He says at one point that even allowing for reincarnation would only involve minor tweaking of the equations. He’s there with it, but he wrote something called the compatibility of personalities. I’m going to bollocks it up if I try to remember the name. But the essence of it was the compatibility of human survival with quantum physics. Right. And what he argued. He’s one of the older school, right. Where, you know, in the early days of quantum physics, when they were first coming out with it, the early theorists, you know, thought that consciousness has to be involved in collapsing the waveform function.

Right. That you need consciousness involved to make quantum physics even work. Right. He’s a. He’s of that school. And what he was arguing was that that means that consciousness is separate from physical reality. And so consciousness has to be separate from the physical body. Right? And so what that did for me is because one of the other things I was studying, puzzling about is how do we think of the soul? Because people say what? Reincarnation. They say the soul. Well, that’s a very religious idea, isn’t it? But here, Stab was giving me the idea that it’s consciousness what survives death.

And what reincarnates, we can say, is consciousness, which could be the. Which is what they call the soul. Which is what they call the soul. And so once we get to that point of saying, okay, what people call the soul really is consciousness. Or at least let’s think of it that way, Then we’re away from religion. Then we can start talking about psychology and Science, Right. Well, science is the study of what is. So if the ideas of religion or the ideas of a spiritual, spiritual world is real, then science will be able to describe it too.

If it’s the science of what is it? There isn’t. They aren’t separate. I don’t think it is. And I. There are people more and more who are awakening to this and seeing it, seeing that it can be studied in terms of Western science, not just Eastern, you know, philosophy or Eastern ideas which are more subjective. Right. That it can be studied in more objective ways and that we can, you know, look at this stuff in a more objective way as we get more tools that we understand, because we, we did quantum physics is helping us understand where we didn’t have those tool sets.

So as we have more building blocks of what we are, are, it gives us more and more tools to define all these things. That’s right, yeah. Yeah. It’s a. This is such a fantastic. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, no, I was just going to repeat what you said. It gives us the tools. I mean, and the tools help us, you know, their translation. Right. The tools help us to understand things in a way that we didn’t, we weren’t viewing them before because we didn’t have those tools. We didn’t have that language. Now where can people follow you and learn about what you’re doing and the research that you’re doing? And it’s just so incredible to learn more about these real life examples and the people who are experiencing this.

Where can they follow you? Well, unfortunately my website’s down now. I don’t know why, but the best place to send them is something that’s called the Psy Encyclopedia. And I’m not the general editor of that, you know. And so there’s a lot of. I’ve been writing for it for a long time, for years. And so I sort of moved up into the, you know, I was natural then sort of move up to the general editor position. It’s called the Psi Encyclopedia and it’s put out by the, the Society for Psychical Research in London, this British thing.

But we have over 750 articles now. Wow. So that’s great. All areas of parapsychology and a good hunk of them are on reincarnation. So that’s the best place to go to get into consciousness studies. Parapsychology, the way parapsychology approaches consciousness studies into reincarnation. That’s what I would recommend. Go there. And then if they wanted to follow you on Facebook, there’s A Facebook group or in Facebook. And the name of my group is Signs of Reincarnation. That’s also the sign of my book. That’s the title of my book, Signs of Reincarnation. And they can give your book Signs of Reincarnation, huh? They can get your book anywhere.

Science of Reincarnation. I assume it’s on Amazon and everywhere else. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It was published by Roman and Littlefield in 2019. So it’s a few years old now, but it still covers everything that was out as of 2019. And Roman and Littlefield is an academic publisher, so it’s an academic book. You know, I have another book that’s more popular, you know, if people want a popular sort of book. It’s called I Saw a Light Came Here that I co authored with another researcher or Linda Harrelson. But probably if your audience will be more interested in the academic one.

You think so? Science of Reincarnation. Okay. Yes. So you have one that’s more academic, and then you have one that’s more mass appeal. It’s more popular. Right. So hit both. And the Facebook group is for anybody. Right. You know, and so it engages with the public, but tries to educate them, too, about the research. Well, yeah, and this is real, guys. This is what we’re seeing, and this is the research. We don’t necessarily know all the whys behind it, but this is happening, and we’re documenting it. And this is real science. Right. You see? And this is the thing.

The people come into this group and tell their stories or their children or their grandchildren. So we don’t do hypnosis. And that was one of the things that, from the beginning, I said no hypnosis, because a lot of reincarnation stuff is about hypnosis. I wanted to focus on the experience, and I wanted people to know that. That it’s not just this artificial aggression stuff. Kids and some adults actually have these experiences. So from the very beginning, I focused on that, on the experiences, and people come in. I mean, with them. That’s wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining the program today.

I really appreciate it. Well, absolutely. I mean, we could go on and on and on forever, but we can’t, so. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. It’s been a delight to be here. Well, and I think people, you know, I could go on forever. I think people would like to see some of the ex. You know, the actual examples of what people are seeing. And. And that’s what you have on these. This Facebook page and in your book. And you go through all these to prove to people this is what we’re seeing. And it’s absolutely remarkable.

I remember seeing little videos of. Of, you know, what these kids experience and then going to their homes or, you know, their past lives in the environment. It’s all proven out. It’s just. It’s so incredible. It’s nothing like seeing it for yourself with all these different kids over and over again. And this for so many people, I mean, if it’s the experience of having their children or grandchildren talk about these things, that wakes them up, shakes them up and says, hey, you know, I can’t dismiss this. There’s something here. There’s something here. Yes. Well, thank you so much.

This is a wonderful conversation.
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